8 GEDmatch results from North Italy

**Jana** · 04-01-2018, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by Haider

Interesting. So North Italy is not homogeneous, as there's a clear distinction between Northwest and Northeast. Veneto and Friuli even seem Slavic influenced and can be modeled as half Romanian/Bulgarian half Spanish, hence the high distances on oracles.

Veneto isn't slavic influenced, but certain part of Friuli is, from Slovenes/Caranthanian Slavs.

**Percivalle** · 04-01-2018, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Vid Flumina

The same thing occurs in the northwest as you move toward the Western Alps, it's not a coincidence the position of Cuneo in PCAs. Nearby Valdieri, Entraque and Roaschia used to be Occitan-speaking at some point.

That woman was born indeed in Entraque, Cuneo, and her mother was from there (but all the surnames are quite Italian), instead her father was from Castelletto d'Erro, Alessandria, Piedmont, Acquese near Monferrato at the border with Liguria.

Originally Posted by Ajeje Brazorf

I wanted to post the second one you listed but didn't because I thought it was atypical, you know, he scores French and even West Germans, Serbs before North Italians.

She is fully northern Italian but most likely some ancient Cimbrian ancestry.

2 63.5% North_Italian + 36.5% North_Swedish @ 3.16

**Vid Flumina** · 04-01-2018, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by Percivalle

That woman was born indeed in Entraque, Cuneo, and her mother was from there (but all the surnames are quite Italian), instead her father was from Castelletto d'Erro, Alessandria, Piedmont, Acquese near Monferrato at the border with Liguria.

The sample I'm using is entirely from CN (Peveragno/Chiusa di Pesio) with 100% Piedmontese surnames.

**Percivalle** · 04-01-2018, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Vid Flumina

The sample I'm using is entirely from CN (Peveragno/Chiusa di Pesio) with 100% Piedmontese surnames.

ah, ok. Perché ho i risultati di una nata proprio a Entraque e pensavo utilizzassi quelli. Ma anche questa ha tutti i cognomi piemontesi.

Questi i suoi risultati

North_Sea 16.65
Atlantic 30.30
Baltic 6.73
Eastern_Euro 6.02
West_Med 18.72
West_Asian 7.56
East_Med 10.09
Red_Sea 3.59
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.35
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

E questa di Castelfranco Veneto, Treviso.

North_Sea 21.18
Atlantic 27.68
Baltic 8.30
Eastern_Euro 4.45
West_Med 18.91
West_Asian 5.54
East_Med 12.97
Red_Sea 0.83
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 0.12
Sub-Saharan -

**QUICAS** · 04-01-2018, 02:15 PM

So North Italians are closer to iberians? In my opinion they look somewhat different, despite similar pigmentations.
NORTH ITALIANS are more dinarid, western-med, alpine, eastern-med and norid. (South and Central vibe)
IBERIANS are more atlanto-med, western-med, Atlantid, north-atlantid and alpine. (South and western vibe)

**Vid Flumina** · 04-01-2018, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Percivalle

ah, ok. Perché ho i risultati di una nata proprio a Entraque e pensavo utilizzassi quelli. Ma anche questa ha tutti i cognomi piemontesi.

Questi i suoi risultati

North_Sea 16.65
Atlantic 30.30
Baltic 6.73
Eastern_Euro 6.02
West_Med 18.72
West_Asian 7.56
East_Med 10.09
Red_Sea 3.59
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.35
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

E questa di Castelfranco Veneto, Treviso.

North_Sea 21.18
Atlantic 27.68
Baltic 8.30
Eastern_Euro 4.45
West_Med 18.91
West_Asian 5.54
East_Med 12.97
Red_Sea 0.83
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 0.12
Sub-Saharan -

Questi sono 100% cuneesi verificati:

Peveragno (CN)

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 24.61
2 North_Sea 24.02
3 West_Med 20.06
4 East_Med 13.99
5 Baltic 8.93
6 West_Asian 3.83
7 Eastern_Euro 2.92
8 Red_Sea 1.34
9 South_Asian 0.32

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Portuguese 6.28
2 Spanish_Galicia 6.38
3 Spanish_Cataluna 6.39
4 North_Italian 7.27
5 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 7.61
6 Spanish_Murcia 7.66
7 Spanish_Extremadura 7.81
8 French 8.95
9 Spanish_Valencia 9.81
10 Spanish_Andalucia 10.51
11 Spanish_Cantabria 10.81
12 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 10.95
13 Spanish_Aragon 12.13
14 Southwest_French 12.16
15 Tuscan 12.63
16 South_Dutch 13.55
17 West_German 14.39
18 Serbian 15.29
19 Romanian 16.39
20 Austrian 17.13

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 79.5% North_Italian + 20.5% West_Norwegian @ 3.86
2 73.2% North_Italian + 26.8% Southwest_English @ 3.95
3 77.8% North_Italian + 22.2% Orcadian @ 4
4 74.8% North_Italian + 25.2% Southeast_English @ 4.06
5 69.7% North_Italian + 30.3% West_German @ 4.1
6 77.2% North_Italian + 22.8% North_Dutch @ 4.1
7 79% North_Italian + 21% Norwegian @ 4.1
8 57.1% North_Italian + 42.9% French @ 4.16
9 77.6% North_Italian + 22.4% West_Scottish @ 4.16
10 77% North_Italian + 23% Irish @ 4.17
11 79.6% North_Italian + 20.4% Swedish @ 4.2
12 78.5% Spanish_Cataluna + 21.5% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.32
13 77.7% North_Italian + 22.3% Danish @ 4.33
14 69.3% North_Italian + 30.7% South_Dutch @ 4.58
15 77.2% North_Italian + 22.8% North_German @ 4.75
16 81.9% North_Italian + 18.1% North_Swedish @ 4.89
17 84.2% Spanish_Cataluna + 15.8% Central_Greek @ 4.98
18 91.6% Spanish_Cataluna + 8.4% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.99
19 85.2% Spanish_Cataluna + 14.8% Ashkenazi @ 5.05
20 57.3% Spanish_Galicia + 42.7% North_Italian @ 5.07

Boves (CN)

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 24.89
2 Atlantic 22.56
3 West_Med 21
4 East_Med 11.97
5 Baltic 9.51
6 West_Asian 7.4
7 Eastern_Euro 1.13
8 Red_Sea 0.94
9 South_Asian 0.59

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Galicia 7.66
2 Portuguese 8.19
3 North_Italian 8.31
4 Spanish_Cataluna 8.57
5 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 9.49
6 French 9.51
7 Spanish_Extremadura 9.86
8 Spanish_Murcia 10.17
9 Spanish_Valencia 12.11
10 Spanish_Andalucia 12.3
11 Spanish_Cantabria 12.32
12 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 12.79
13 Tuscan 13.03
14 Southwest_French 13.86
15 South_Dutch 14.07
16 Spanish_Aragon 14.13
17 West_German 14.23
18 Serbian 15.56
19 Romanian 16.06
20 Bulgarian 17.16

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 67% North_Italian + 33% West_German @ 5.14
2 78.7% North_Italian + 21.3% West_Norwegian @ 5.31
3 72.6% North_Italian + 27.4% Southwest_English @ 5.49
4 77.2% North_Italian + 22.8% Orcadian @ 5.5
5 78.7% North_Italian + 21.3% Swedish @ 5.52
6 78.3% North_Italian + 21.7% Norwegian @ 5.53
7 55.6% North_Italian + 44.4% French @ 5.56
8 76.6% North_Italian + 23.4% North_Dutch @ 5.57
9 70% West_German + 30% Sardinian @ 5.66
10 75.1% North_Italian + 24.9% Southeast_English @ 5.79
11 77.2% North_Italian + 22.8% Irish @ 5.84
12 78% North_Italian + 22% West_Scottish @ 5.88
13 78% North_Italian + 22% Danish @ 5.97
14 61.1% French + 38.9% Tuscan @ 6.03
15 69% North_Italian + 31% South_Dutch @ 6.05
16 76.8% North_Italian + 23.2% North_German @ 6.13
17 78.3% Spanish_Galicia + 21.7% Greek_Thessaly @ 6.23
18 91.7% Spanish_Galicia + 8.3% Georgian @ 6.25
19 73.4% Spanish_Cataluna + 26.6% Greek_Thessaly @ 6.27
20 92.2% Spanish_Galicia + 7.8% Abhkasian @ 6.27

**Percivalle** · 04-01-2018, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Vid Flumina

Questi sono 100% cuneesi verificati:

From Peveragno (CN)

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 24.61
2 North_Sea 24.02
3 West_Med 20.06
4 East_Med 13.99
5 Baltic 8.93
6 West_Asian 3.83
7 Eastern_Euro 2.92
8 Red_Sea 1.34
9 South_Asian 0.32

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Portuguese 6.28
2 Spanish_Galicia 6.38
3 Spanish_Cataluna 6.39
4 North_Italian 7.27
5 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 7.61
6 Spanish_Murcia 7.66
7 Spanish_Extremadura 7.81
8 French 8.95
9 Spanish_Valencia 9.81
10 Spanish_Andalucia 10.51
11 Spanish_Cantabria 10.81
12 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 10.95
13 Spanish_Aragon 12.13
14 Southwest_French 12.16
15 Tuscan 12.63
16 South_Dutch 13.55
17 West_German 14.39
18 Serbian 15.29
19 Romanian 16.39
20 Austrian 17.13

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 79.5% North_Italian + 20.5% West_Norwegian @ 3.86
2 73.2% North_Italian + 26.8% Southwest_English @ 3.95
3 77.8% North_Italian + 22.2% Orcadian @ 4
4 74.8% North_Italian + 25.2% Southeast_English @ 4.06
5 69.7% North_Italian + 30.3% West_German @ 4.1
6 77.2% North_Italian + 22.8% North_Dutch @ 4.1
7 79% North_Italian + 21% Norwegian @ 4.1
8 57.1% North_Italian + 42.9% French @ 4.16
9 77.6% North_Italian + 22.4% West_Scottish @ 4.16
10 77% North_Italian + 23% Irish @ 4.17
11 79.6% North_Italian + 20.4% Swedish @ 4.2
12 78.5% Spanish_Cataluna + 21.5% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.32
13 77.7% North_Italian + 22.3% Danish @ 4.33
14 69.3% North_Italian + 30.7% South_Dutch @ 4.58
15 77.2% North_Italian + 22.8% North_German @ 4.75
16 81.9% North_Italian + 18.1% North_Swedish @ 4.89
17 84.2% Spanish_Cataluna + 15.8% Central_Greek @ 4.98
18 91.6% Spanish_Cataluna + 8.4% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.99
19 85.2% Spanish_Cataluna + 14.8% Ashkenazi @ 5.05
20 57.3% Spanish_Galicia + 42.7% North_Italian @ 5.07

From Boves (CN)

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 24.89
2 Atlantic 22.56
3 West_Med 21
4 East_Med 11.97
5 Baltic 9.51
6 West_Asian 7.4
7 Eastern_Euro 1.13
8 Red_Sea 0.94
9 South_Asian 0.59

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Galicia 7.66
2 Portuguese 8.19
3 North_Italian 8.31
4 Spanish_Cataluna 8.57
5 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 9.49
6 French 9.51
7 Spanish_Extremadura 9.86
8 Spanish_Murcia 10.17
9 Spanish_Valencia 12.11
10 Spanish_Andalucia 12.3
11 Spanish_Cantabria 12.32
12 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 12.79
13 Tuscan 13.03
14 Southwest_French 13.86
15 South_Dutch 14.07
16 Spanish_Aragon 14.13
17 West_German 14.23
18 Serbian 15.56
19 Romanian 16.06
20 Bulgarian 17.16

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 67% North_Italian + 33% West_German @ 5.14
2 78.7% North_Italian + 21.3% West_Norwegian @ 5.31
3 72.6% North_Italian + 27.4% Southwest_English @ 5.49
4 77.2% North_Italian + 22.8% Orcadian @ 5.5
5 78.7% North_Italian + 21.3% Swedish @ 5.52
6 78.3% North_Italian + 21.7% Norwegian @ 5.53
7 55.6% North_Italian + 44.4% French @ 5.56
8 76.6% North_Italian + 23.4% North_Dutch @ 5.57
9 70% West_German + 30% Sardinian @ 5.66
10 75.1% North_Italian + 24.9% Southeast_English @ 5.79
11 77.2% North_Italian + 22.8% Irish @ 5.84
12 78% North_Italian + 22% West_Scottish @ 5.88
13 78% North_Italian + 22% Danish @ 5.97
14 61.1% French + 38.9% Tuscan @ 6.03
15 69% North_Italian + 31% South_Dutch @ 6.05
16 76.8% North_Italian + 23.2% North_German @ 6.13
17 78.3% Spanish_Galicia + 21.7% Greek_Thessaly @ 6.23
18 91.7% Spanish_Galicia + 8.3% Georgian @ 6.25
19 73.4% Spanish_Cataluna + 26.6% Greek_Thessaly @ 6.27
20 92.2% Spanish_Galicia + 7.8% Abhkasian @ 6.27

I loro risultati ci stanno, non mi sorprendono. Ora l'oracle del K15 è abbastanza penoso, ma a rigor di logica in una PCA dovrebbero finire più a ovest di una loro controparte veneta o friulana, che invece dovrebbe andare nella direzione opposta.

**Vid Flumina** · 04-01-2018, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by Percivalle

I loro risultati ci stanno, non mi sorprendono. Ora l'oracle del K15 è abbastanza penoso, ma a rigor di logica in una PCA dovrebbero finire più a ovest di una loro controparte veneta o friulana, che invece dovrebbe andare nella direzione opposta.

Esatto. Tranne il risultato da te postato di Castelfranco Veneto che si sovrappone completamente coi cuneesi, quasi come se fosse parte iberico. Hai avuto modo di verificare la genealogia?

**Percivalle** · 04-01-2018, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Vid Flumina

Esatto. Tranne il risultato da te postato di Castelfranco Veneto che si sovrappone completamente coi cuneesi, quasi come se fosse parte iberico. Hai avuto modo di verificare la genealogia?

Informazioni dettagliate sulla geneaologia in questo specifico caso no. Il cognome è tipicamente veneto e ha un picco nella stessa provincia di TV. Ha probabilmente qualcosa in più di WHG + EEF che la sposta verso ovest (e qualcosa in meno di EHG e CHG), rispetto a delle medie del nord est. A volte esiste anche una variazione individuale che scompiglia le carte. Su Harappa invece risulta spostata a nord est rispetto a Bergamo.

**Vid Flumina** · 04-01-2018, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by *****

T973440

This is a kit of a Macedonian guy...
I think he is a good representation of the average Macedonian.

He's basically a Thessalian/Northern Greek, you sure this is average? I have seen your results and you sit right between this guy and the Bulgarian-like sample I have. Do you reckon yours are just as representative or more on the northern end of the spectrum for your country?