Question to LatinAmericans about iberian colonization.

[Heather Duval]

ter influencia e ser fortemente africana são duas coisas bem diferentes

No nosso idioma tem até mesmo influência dos nativos. A maioria dos Brasileiros dizem absurdos como:"Pra MIM fazer". Eu ouço esse tipo de pérola nas novelas inclusive.

[lisarb]

In a hypothetical dimension where the Aboriginals would have been left alone or the South American continent would have been colonized by other powers that not the Iberians, none of the Brazilian members here typing would exist. It is the butterfly effect but they seemingly keep on forgetting about that despite wishing that such events did happen in the past.

porque os portugueses africanos não ficaram na africa e declararam sua independencia de portugal?

[Heather Duval]

porque os portugueses africanos não ficaram na africa e declararam sua independencia de portugal?

Por que*

[Heather Duval]

That nogga aint Brazilian

[Lurker]

5 million in Brazil sounds realistic, vs. no more than 3.5 million in the USA and Canada.

Why do you think that the USA and Canada could sustain more people than Brazil?

Brazil has better climate and soils for farming than most of North America.

Brazil had horrible soil for agriculture until the 1970s, when genetic engineering and chemichal fertilizers helped settle the cerrado (savannah). The Brazilian natives staple food was composed of potatoes and especially cassava. I don't know if you have ever cultivated cassava, but that is a poisonous plant that requires a lot of processing to be made edible.

If the natives hadn't taught the Europeans how to cultivate cassava and make it edible the Europeans would die when they settled Brazil. Actually, many Europeans did die of food poisoning because they didn't know how to treat, especially during the 19th and 20th century, as European immigration increased and the natives were becoming less numoerous.An example is the Anchieta Island, in Sao Paulo. 2000 Russian refugees from the Russian Revolution came there in the 1920s and 100 of them died because they didn't know when it was proper to eat cassava.

So if a culture has to rely on such a dangerous plant to survive, it's because it doesn't have any other alternatives. Brazil was not a good place to live back in the 1500s. The Tupi practice of cannibalism (eating their enemies) became a part of their culture probably because food was so difficult to grow in the jungles.

[Lurker]

Amazonian Chiefdoms were more developed than anything in Canada and the USA:

While the Amazonian chiefdoms were numerous, you can't dismiss North American native cultures like that. The Anasazi left very impressive villages carved in the stone and the Missisipi Valley Culture was as impressive as the Amazonian cultures. Both Cultures were killed probably by disease with First Contact with Europeans.

[Lurker]

So probably 5 million natives in Brazil as of 1492 is an exaggeration. Because hunter-gatherers usually have population density of no more than 1 person per 10 km2 (or 0.1 person per 1 km2).

You need at least 3 x 3 kilometers of hunting & gathering grounds to feed just one person 365 days per year. Of course, it also depends on how many plants and animals there are - in tropical jungles of Brazil you have much more plants and animals than in temperate forests of Canada, for example. So hunter-gathering tribes in Brazil could sustain much more people per 100 km2 than similar tribes in Canada.

Farming and gardening is also more productive in warmer climates without Winter.

How productive farming is depends on lots of factors, no only if a country is tropical or temperate.

Brazil became a farming superpower only in the 1970s. The problem with Brazil is tropical soil, which is acidic and needs to have its pH corrected for most crops to work.

If you look at most top countries in agricultural production of most staple crops (wheat, corn, soybean) they are in temperate climate (USA, Russia, Ukraine, Argentina, Australia, China, Canada). The only exception is rice, which is better in tropical climate. Tropical countries came much later to the top positions, and that is due to the green revolution that happened in the 1970s, with shitloads of science to help planting crops in difficult places.

An anedocte: in 1822, when Brazil declared independence from Portugal, it had the same population size (3 million for each country). It was one of the pet peeves that led to independence, as since 1/3 of Brazil's population was slaves, and slaves were not represented in parliament, the Porto Parliament had 3 Portuguese representatives for 2 Brazilians, and this made the Portuguese able to pass legislation that was considered unacceptable to the Brazilians (such as making Brazil a colony again and not part of the United Kingdom of Portugal, Brazil and Azores).

In 1940, Brazil had the same population as metropolitan France (40 million each).

Brazil's population boom only came in the later decades, and the agricultural production to sustain it (and make it a place that exports food instead of importing it) came later. Brazil used to export superfluous kind of food (sugarcane, cocoa, coffee) and import vital stuff, like wheat (which is still imported, it doesn't grow in our territory).

[Lurker]

How come there was very little slavery of Africans in Portugal's old world colonies? Like in Goa, Malacca, East Timor and Macau whereas Brazil had a shit ton of African slaves?

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It was not widespread, but the Portuguese did bring black slaves to these Asian trade outposts, mostly as servants.

The "black samurai" people were talking so much about was an African slave the Portuguese brought as their servant to Japan when they had a trade outpost there. Oda Nobunaga, who was to become shogun, was so impressed with him that he asked the Portuguese to "give" him, and they became friends. Oda made him a samurai later on.

[lisarb]

How productive farming is depends on lots of factors, no only if a country is tropical or temperate.

Brazil became a farming superpower only in the 1970s. The problem with Brazil is tropical soil, which is acidic and needs to have its pH corrected for most crops to work.

If you look at most top countries in agricultural production of most staple crops (wheat, corn, soybean) they are in temperate climate (USA, Russia, Ukraine, Argentina, Australia, China, Canada). The only exception is rice, which is better in tropical climate. Tropical countries came much later to the top positions, and that is due to the green revolution that happened in the 1970s, with shitloads of science to help planting crops in difficult places.

An anedocte: in 1822, when Brazil declared independence from Portugal, it had the same population size (3 million for each country). It was one of the pet peeves that led to independence, as since 1/3 of Brazil's population was slaves, and slaves were not represented in parliament, the Porto Parliament had 3 Portuguese representatives for 2 Brazilians, and this made the Portuguese able to pass legislation that was considered unacceptable to the Brazilians (such as making Brazil a colony again and not part of the United Kingdom of Portugal, Brazil and Azores).

In 1940, Brazil had the same population as metropolitan France (40 million each).

Brazil's population boom only came in the later decades, and the agricultural production to sustain it (and make it a place that exports food instead of importing it) came later. Brazil used to export superfluous kind of food (sugarcane, cocoa, coffee) and import vital stuff, like wheat (which is still imported, it doesn't grow in our territory).

australia temperate climate??

[lisarb]

Brazil had horrible soil for agriculture until the 1970s, when genetic engineering and chemichal fertilizers helped settle the cerrado (savannah). The Brazilian natives staple food was composed of potatoes and especially cassava. I don't know if you have ever cultivated cassava, but that is a poisonous plant that requires a lot of processing to be made edible.

If the natives hadn't taught the Europeans how to cultivate cassava and make it edible the Europeans would die when they settled Brazil. Actually, many Europeans did die of food poisoning because they didn't know how to treat, especially during the 19th and 20th century, as European immigration increased and the natives were becoming less numoerous.An example is the Anchieta Island, in Sao Paulo. 2000 Russian refugees from the Russian Revolution came there in the 1920s and 100 of them died because they didn't know when it was proper to eat cassava.

So if a culture has to rely on such a dangerous plant to survive, it's because it doesn't have any other alternatives. Brazil was not a good place to live back in the 1500s. The Tupi practice of cannibalism (eating their enemies) became a part of their culture probably because food was so difficult to grow in the jungles.

natives were very few in 1800