"Proto-Iranians were not Northern Europeans"

[Token]

The purpose of this thread is to shut the mouth of the Iranic WE WUZ'ers who deny that Indo-Iranic was brought by Northern Europeans to South Asia.

[1] "distance%=1.3205"
Pashtun

BMAC,34.8
Indus_Valley_Civilization,34.8
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,26.2
Mongola,4.2

[1] "distance%=1.6721"
Brahmin_West_Bengal

Indus_Valley_Civilization,71.4
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,21.2
Onge,4.2
Mongola,2.6
BMAC,0.6

[1] "distance%=1.4714"
Brahmin_Gujarat

Indus_Valley_Civilization,64.8
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,21
BMAC,13.4
Mongola,0.8

[1] "distance%=1.8399"
Gujarati

Indus_Valley_Civilization,87.2
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,11.8
BMAC,0.6
Mongola,0.4

[1] "distance%=1.6467"
Tajik_Yagnobi

BMAC,50
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,43.4
Mongola,6.6

Now lets me make a experiment, what if we replace Russian_Steppe_MLBA for Scandinavians?

[1] "distance%=1.689"
Brahmin_West_Bengal

Indus_Valley_Civilization,73.8
Norwegian,19.4
Mongola,3
Onge,2.4
BMAC,1.4

Works equally well.
Norwegian-like admixture in Brahmins? This is not possibru...
Cope with that, Iranians.

[Tigranes]

Iranians are true Aryans.

[XenophobicPrussian]

Should've compared fits with Yamnaya and groups like Botai so people can't say "this is just pseudo admixture from earlier groups"(spoiler: Steppe_MLBA is the best fit), but yeah. Corded Ware/Aryans still weren't Nordic-like though.

[Token]

Should've compared fits with Yamnaya and groups like Botai so people can't say "this is just pseudo admixture from earlier groups"(spoiler: Steppe_MLBA is the best fit), but yeah. Corded Ware/Aryans still weren't Nordic-like though.

I didn't even tried but i know Botai will return extremely bad fits so not even worth my time. Weren't Nordic-like in what sense? Genetically, you'd still need some EEF and WHG to get to modern-day Northern Europeans but they are still quite close, and this is why you can proxy the Indo-European ancestry in Asians using Norwegians or similars with reasonable fits.

[Blondie]

Great post +1

[XenophobicPrussian]

I didn't even tried but i know Botai will return extremely bad fits so not even worth my time. Weren't Nordic-like in what sense? Genetically, you'd still need some EEF and WHG to get to modern-day Northern Europeans but they are still quite close, and this is why you can proxy the Indo-European ancestry in Asians using Norwegians or similars with reasonable fits.

Depends what you mean similar. In a European sense they were still closest to eastern Europeans like Ukrainians or SW Russians. I don't see any reason to use Scandinavians as a proxy when there's literally closer populations. It's kind of irrelevant on a global or even West Eurasian scale, but people here look at things through a European perspective, and I'm pretty sure most people think Norwegians and Ukrainians are pretty different from eachother. I assume you consider all populations north of the Alps to be extremely similar to eachother based on one of your posts, and I guess that isn't unreasonable, but most people don't share that opinion. You don't start getting Nordic or NW Euro like until you get to Bell Beaker, Urnfield, Nordic_BA, and Unetice to a lesser extent.

I'm aware some of the modern admixture calcs put the closest match on Corded Ware related populations with Scandinavians, but these matches are still far and usually it's intermediary populations(between west and east) like Finns/Estonians, not Scandinavians that get top match in GEDMatch Oracle or whatever. CW or Aryans didn't have specific NW Euro drift or Balto-Slavic drift, but had ancestral population ratios, specifically ANE % closer to NE Slavs than Nordics, and cluster with them on PCA plots.

[Dorian]

SHAMBOLIC NONSENSE RUBBISH!!!

[Token]

Depends what you mean similar. In a European sense they were still closest to eastern Europeans like Ukrainians or SW Russians. I don't see any reason to use Scandinavians as a proxy when there's literally closer populations. It's kind of irrelevant on a global or even West Eurasian scale, but people here look at things through a European perspective, and I'm pretty sure most people think Norwegians and Ukrainians are pretty different from eachother. I assume you consider all populations north of the Alps to be extremely similar to eachother based on one of your posts, and I guess that isn't unreasonable, but most people don't share that opinion. You don't start getting Nordic or NW Euro like until you get to Bell Beaker, Urnfield, Nordic_BA, and Unetice to a lesser extent.

I'm aware some of the modern admixture calcs put the closest match on Corded Ware related populations with Scandinavians, but these matches are still far and usually it's intermediary populations(between west and east) like Finns/Estonians, not Scandinavians that get top match in GEDMatch Oracle or whatever. CW or Aryans didn't have specific NW Euro drift or Balto-Slavic drift, but had ancestral population ratios, specifically ANE % closer to NE Slavs than Nordics, and cluster with them on PCA plots.

The problem with using Ukrainians or Lithuanians is that Balto-Slavs underwent some heavy genetic drift at some time during the Bronze Age that ends up skewing some of the dimensions of these calculators, which is the reason why the fit is unusually high when you try to model Balto-Slavs with ancient (pre-Balto-Slavic drift) pops, or use then as a proxy to model other populations. This would work with formal tests , which largely ignores recent drift, but not with G25 or GEDmatch calculators. Scandinavians remains largely similar to LNBA Europeans in all dimensions in this context, so using Norwegians is just a form to keep the fits low and countour recent drift.

In formal admixture tests, Nordics and NE Slavs are hardly distinguishable in terms of steppe admixture. Balts are less basal/more HG which will get them marginally closer (Basal is distal in this context) to steppe populations, which obviously doesn't means that they got more steppe ancestry.

[Imperator Biff]

Rafidhas and pajeets on suicide watch.

[MS85]

Nice, not nice, very GREAT! I do see a lot BMAC DNA in South Central Asia.


BMAC is a true and real ARYAN marker of Central Asia.


Russian_Steppe_MLBA is NOT Aryan at all. It is MONGOLOID!