"Proto-Iranians were not Northern Europeans"

[J. Ketch]

Plotting north of Poles is not Northern European now

[Dick]

""-Most notably, the huge, 2015 study, by Peter A. Underhill et al., using 16,244 individuals from over 126 populations from across Eurasia, concluded that there was "compelling evidence that the initial episodes of haplogroup R1a diversification likely occurred in the vicinity of present-day Iran." "

"The study also concluded that R1a is present in South Asia ACROSS linguistic groups including Indo European, Dravidian and tribal groups. Given the close connections between Indo-Iranian texts it is clear that ancient South and West Asia were as multilingual as they are today. Iranian Avestha itself traces its roots back to South Asia and the Sindhu (Indus) Sarasvati civilization. "

Lmaooooo

Makes sense

[Yaglakar]

Tent?How could it be heated in winter ? What is the records? Yurt is from mongolic ger- what is promongolic fantasy? Mongolic etimology of yurt?

I don't think there a Turkic group which refers to yurts as yurts in their own respective languages. Yurt may refer to home, land, country, domain or place of living. By "Yurts" we understand a construction which can put together and dismantled at will with the walls of the frame folded in orderly manner, not only some kind of temporary twig structure. There are no descriptions of yurts prior to movement of Mongolic peoples. First Chinese records describe Mongolic dwellings. The appearance of yurts in Central Asia is linked to a period between Qara Khitai and Mongols (11-13th century). What we see today, Turkmen, Kazakh and Kirghiz yurts evolved from Mongolic type dwellings.

Cumans:




There also many dwellings with a brick-clay foundation.

Azerbaijan:






Шатры essentially, and pretty warm as well

[Joso]

They probably didn't. I guess they were more like Scythians or a mix of Caucasians and Balto-Slavs. In India they must have been heavily outnumbered by the natives.

How scythians looked?

[Leto]

How scythians looked?

Prolly like this. He is a Balkar (Northwest Caucasian)



Karachay-Balkars are often R1a (20-30% or something in the ballpark) and apparently have a significant amount of Aryan blood. They speak a Kipchak Turkic language.

[Chelubey]

I don't think there a Turkic group which refers to yurts as yurts in their own respective languages. Yurt may refer to home, land, country, domain or place of living. By "Yurts" we understand a construction which can put together and dismantled at will with the walls of the frame folded in orderly manner, not only some kind of temporary twig structure. There are no descriptions of yurts prior to movement of Mongolic peoples. First Chinese records describe Mongolic dwellings. The appearance of yurts in Central Asia is linked to a period between Qara Khitai and Mongols (11-13th century). What we see today, Turkmen, Kazakh and Kirghiz yurts evolved from Mongolic type dwellings.

Cumans:

https://fetr.org/articles/tyurkskaya...lichiya-tipov/
It says here that Mongolian and Turkic yurts are constructively different and in fact are an ethnic marker.
Turkic yurts due to the special design have no central columns. The Mongolian yurt has straight roof poles and is lower than the Turkic one. Although some experts argue that the Mongolian yurt is being made lower because of strong winds in Mongolia but this argument is very bad. The force of the wind in the Kazakh steppes is not very different from the force of the wind in the Mongolian steppes. In addition, the Kalmyks also use the Mongolian type of yurt.
The real advantages of the Mongolian yurt are:
1) Mongolian yurt is much easier to make
2) Mongolian yurt is much easier to assemble.
But the Mongolian yurt is less convenient.
In fact, the Mongolian yurt is a constructively simplified version of the Turkic yurt.
The Mongolian version is actually structurally closer to the tent. After all, the main feature of the Turkic yurt is the absence of supporting columns due to its special construction.
All this suggests that the Mongolian yurt is most likely a simplified version of the Turkic yurt, and the Turkic yurt is not a complicated version of the Mongolian yurt.
This is generally a Mongolian tradition : simplicity to the detriment of comfort. Mongolian carts are also more primitive than Turkic one.
In addition, it is very difficult to imagine that various Turkic peoples, in the 11th-13th century already long divided, began to build the same type of yurt ("Turkic columnless") while borrowing the main constructive idea from the Mongols only in the 13th century. It is obvious that various traditions of manufacture of portable dwellings among the Mongols and Turks appeared a long time ago, probably even at pra-Turkic or pra-Mongolic times.
As i know, the Turks have their original vocabulary for parts of the construction of a portable dwelling and they are not borrowed from the Mongols.
In addition, I do not know of any famous archaeologist / specialist who holds your views on this problem. This is probably your own hypothesis.
I think that my deductive arguments cost more than your arguments, probably based only on the random chronological coincidence of the first detailed description of yurts in the historical literature and visual arts and the Mongolian expansion of 11-13 centuries.

[Yaglakar]

https://fetr.org/articles/tyurkskaya...lichiya-tipov/
It says here that Mongolian and Turkic yurts are constructively different and in fact are an ethnic marker.
Turkic yurts due to the special design have no central columns. The Mongolian yurt has straight roof poles and is lower than the Turkic one. Although some experts argue that the Mongolian yurt is being made lower because of strong winds in Mongolia but this argument is very bad. The force of the wind in the Kazakh steppes is not very different from the force of the wind in the Mongolian steppes. In addition, the Kalmyks also use the Mongolian type of yurt.
The real advantages of the Mongolian yurt are:
1) Mongolian yurt is much easier to make
2) Mongolian yurt is much easier to assemble.
But the Mongolian yurt is less convenient.
In fact, the Mongolian yurt is a constructively simplified version of the Turkic yurt.
The Mongolian version is actually structurally closer to the tent. After all, the main feature of the Turkic yurt is the absence of supporting columns due to its special construction.
All this suggests that the Mongolian yurt is most likely a simplified version of the Turkic yurt, and the Turkic yurt is not a complicated version of the Mongolian yurt.
This is generally a Mongolian tradition : simplicity to the detriment of comfort. Mongolian carts are also more primitive than Turkic one.
In addition, it is very difficult to imagine that various Turkic peoples, in the 11th-13th century already long divided, began to build the same type of yurt ("Turkic columnless") while borrowing the main constructive idea from the Mongols only in the 13th century. It is obvious that various traditions of manufacture of portable dwellings among the Mongols and Turks appeared a long time ago, probably even at pra-Turkic or pra-Mongolic times.
As i know, the Turks have their original vocabulary for parts of the construction of a portable dwelling and they are not borrowed from the Mongols.
In addition, I do not know of any famous archaeologist / specialist who holds your views on this problem. This is probably your own hypothesis.
I think that my deductive arguments cost more than your arguments, probably based only on the random chronological coincidence of the first detailed description of yurts in the historical literature and visual arts and the Mongolian expansion of 11-13 centuries.

It happened earlier than 13th century, and is linked to increased activity of Mongolic peoples in the region prior to Genghis Khan. Proto-Turks (forest dwellers) adopted Indo-European tents and nomadic culture (including burial practices and stone stelae). Yurts were invented by Mongolic peoples. One can look at Yoruks, they don't have Yurts, why? Because Mongolic culture did not reach them. Cultural vestiges can be observed during Turkic weddings when tents rather than Yurts are placed for the couple.

[Chelubey]

Proto-Turks (forest dwellers) adopted Indo-European tents and nomadic culture (including burial practices and stone stelae).

Proof? I mean proof, not private opininon some experts. For example, give lingvistic proofs.
Forest dwellers and sedentary farmers? This is being reconstructed for the pra-mongol peoples.

Yurts were invented by Mongolic peoples. One can look at Yoruks, they don't have Yurts, why? Because Mongolic culture did not reach them. Cultural vestiges can be observed during Turkic weddings when tents rather than Yurts are placed for the couple.

Turkic peoples had several types of stationary and portable dwellings. Yurt is one of them.
Yuruks use a dwelling which is typical for Middle Eastern nomadic -Berbers and Kurds. "Regional cultural community".
Central Asian Turkmen use yurts.
I gave the link.
The Turkic yurt is much more complicated than the Mongol one.
I know the reason for this - the Mongols just did not have craftsmen/artisans to make complicated yurts and they were poor, so they made a simplified version of a Turkic yurts

[Chelubey]

In addition, this is physics.
The shape of the yurt is ideal for keeping warm and it is comfortable.
Yurt is very suitable for northern latitudes.
It is not very relevant for the Middle East

[Guti]

The purpose of this thread is to shut the mouth of the Iranic WE WUZ'ers who deny that Indo-Iranic was brought by Northern Europeans to South Asia.

[1] "distance%=1.3205"
Pashtun

BMAC,34.8
Indus_Valley_Civilization,34.8
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,26.2
Mongola,4.2

[1] "distance%=1.6721"
Brahmin_West_Bengal

Indus_Valley_Civilization,71.4
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,21.2
Onge,4.2
Mongola,2.6
BMAC,0.6

[1] "distance%=1.4714"
Brahmin_Gujarat

Indus_Valley_Civilization,64.8
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,21
BMAC,13.4
Mongola,0.8

[1] "distance%=1.8399"
Gujarati

Indus_Valley_Civilization,87.2
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,11.8
BMAC,0.6
Mongola,0.4

[1] "distance%=1.6467"
Tajik_Yagnobi

BMAC,50
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,43.4
Mongola,6.6

Now lets me make a experiment, what if we replace Russian_Steppe_MLBA for Scandinavians?

[1] "distance%=1.689"
Brahmin_West_Bengal

Indus_Valley_Civilization,73.8
Norwegian,19.4
Mongola,3
Onge,2.4
BMAC,1.4

Works equally well.
Norwegian-like admixture in Brahmins? This is not possibru...
Cope with that, Iranians.

LMAO. Proto-Iranic and proto-Indo-Iranic are 2 different things.

South Asia is not 'Iranic', but mostly Hindu/Vedic.

Geneflow from the Steppes into South Asia occurred around 1500BC. It was long after proto-Indo-Iranics were gone.