South Slavic & neighbours Eurogenes results

[Dušan]

Well that's obvious. Your results for example are not Croat-like. You seem like a typical Serb with more Slav admixture than is average.
Military frontier had mixed population, for example Croatian population steadily declined trough centuries and only later Serbs became majority.
In beginnings of it Croats were majority. Later came Serbs, Vlachs, some Germans, Hungarians.

Even after Serbs became majority population they never came close to being 100% in the region.

As far as I know, there were no Hungarian and German setllers in Krajina (Banija, Kordun, Lika and Northern Dalmatia). They settled in Slavonia, along with Czechs, Slovaks and some other ethnic groups, but not in Krajina.

I didn't said that Serbs were 100% in Krajina alone, but 70-80%, and what is important there were few of villages were Serbs and Croats lived together. Most setllements were monoethnic. Serbs lived in their villages, Croats lived in their own villages.

This map of part of Lika show that. Red are Serbs, blue are Croats.



This situation, along with religious difference, is fact that there were very low rate of mixing and intermarriage.

[Pribislav]

Guys, please we don't need politization of this!

[Jana]

Burgerland Croats dialacts by origin before they fled Croatia



Notice the Vlai one ? Those are Štokavian migrants, minority among mostly Chakavian refugess. Even Kajkavian group moved with them.

Dialects

Štoj dialect: dialect of the Croatian folklore group Štoji (Güttenbach, Stinatz, Neuberg), is a Shtokavian–(south)Chakavian mixed dialect
Vlah dialect: dialect of the Vlahi, is a Shtokavian dialect in Weiden bei Rechnitz, Zuberbach, Althodis, Schandorf, Dürnbach, Allersdorf, etc., is Shtokavian (schacavian) ikavian dialect similar to Slavonian
Dolinci dialect: dialect of the Dolinci in Unterpullendorf, Frankenau, Kleinmutschen, etc. is a (middle)Chakavian dialect
Poljan dialect: dialect of the Poljanci near Lake Neusiedl, is a (middle)Chakavian dialect
Hac dialect: Chakavian dialect of Haci near Neusiedl
some Croats speak a Kajkavian dialect near Neusiedl
Grob dialect: a Kajkavian dialect, spoken in Chorvátsky Grob in Slovakia

There is strong corelation with Štokavian and name Vlach. I don't think it is a coincidence.

[vbnetkhio]

I am convinced actual Vlachs migrated with Serbs though.

maybe the Serbian Vlach class who had already lost their Vlach language and genetics.

genetically the most Vlach Serbs are Montenegrins.
even Shops from southeast Serbia who were by social status a shepherd/Vlach group can reach to the center of Croatian cluster by Slavicness.

[Jana]

As far as I know, there were no Hungarian and German setllers in Krajina (Banija, Kordun, Lika and Northern Dalmatia). They settled in Slavonia, along with Czechs, Slovaks and some other ethnic groups, but not in Krajina.

I didn't said that Serbs were 100% in Krajina alone, but 70-80%, and what is important there were few of villages were Serbs and Croats lived together. Most setllements were monoethnic. Serbs lived in their villages, Croats lived in their own villages.

This map of part of Lika show that. Red are Serbs, blue are Croats.



This situation, along with religious difference, is fact that there were very low rate of mixing and intermarriage.

Commanders were most often Germans. Some teachers and administration as well. In many frontier school classes were held in German, such as in grammar school Tesla attended.
Religious differences mostly prevented mixing, but it can never be excluded.

Gypsies were almost slaves and untouchables in Romania and they have large Balkan admixture today.

[vbnetkhio]

Yes, very nice work. How would you define my family in terms of clustering ?

you are in the center of Croatian Cluster. i forgot all your ancestries you mentioned.. you have some Herzegovinian or Bosnian Croat,Bosniak and Serb influence? you are slightly north of all of that because of your Croatian Croat and German ancestry i guess

by you i mean you and your parents, i took roughly a centerpoint between your 3 kits. your parents seem similar to each other , you should be too but it's a little bit misarranged becuase of different qualities of your kits.

[Jana]

Actually all my Croatian ancestry is from Croatian-Croats. But thing is large part of Croatian-Croats are by origin partly from BiH, especially in Dalmatia and Slavonia going centuries back.
My mother has little Serbian ancestry, and my father is quater Bosniak. There should be some German in there but G25 says I have practically none except for my mtDNA.

It's interesting how similar my parents are.

[vbnetkhio]

I think Štokavian dialect was created as fussion between Slavic and Vlach groups.

i also sometimes think that looking at how Shtokavian is melodic, like a Romance language. but i think this happened earlier than you think. this is a Serbian text somewhere from pre-Turkish times, the writer got relaxed and
wrote some phrases in his everyday language instead of old church Slavonic.

:г͠: Аще кто деѡ свои꙼ ꙁапишеть комꙋ и припишеть на кога, и аще бꙋдеть вь томь писани ꙁаписано и ѡномꙋ дїꙗкꙋ кои е писаѡ, то да се не вѣрꙋеⷮ:

4. deo - umiesto del;
5. na koga - umiesto na kogo;
6. koi je pisao - umiesto iže jest pisal;

https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?topic=4578.0

[Pribislav]

Post South Slavic, Romanian, Albanian, Greek, Hungarian, Austrian.. k15,k13,k36, results, oracles, k15 pca, k36 similarity map..

k15 pca, posted by ***** on eupedia forum
Attachment 90633

Serb from Bajina Bašta and Užička Požega, surname Spasović:

K15
North_Sea 20.92
Baltic 18.04
Atlantic 16.12
Eastern_Euro 13.97
West_Med 13.22
East_Med 11.24
West_Asian 6.12
Oceanian 0.37

Serb from Kordun, surname Grmuša (he is I2a1b):
K15
North_Sea 19.29
Atlantic 18.82
Baltic 16.44
Eastern_Euro 14.67
West_Med 14.33
East_Med 9.91
West_Asian 5.5
Siberian 0.42
Oceanian 0.37
Amerindian 0.22
Northeast_African 0.03

[Jana]

i also sometimes think that looking at how Shtokavian is melodic, like a Romance language. but i think this happened earlier than you think. this is a Serbian text somewhere from pre-Turkish times, the writer got relaxed and
wrote some phrases in his everyday language instead of old church Slavonic.

https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?topic=4578.0

Interesting. To me Štokavian dialects don't have the typical Slavic intonation. Čakavian received clear Romance influence as well but it is softer and more arhaic sounding in comparison with Štokavian.
Štokavian to me often sounds harsh and very clear. Kajkavian sounds very Slavic in comparison.