My paleo-Balkan ancestors were Thracians

[Dušan]

I realized that most of my pre-Slavic ancestors were Thracians, not Ilyrians.

This is PCA K15 position of ancient examples of western Balkans (Ilyrians) and Eastern Balkans (Thracians).




This is their scaled modeling with modern populations

Illyrians are more related to north Italy:

Target: HRV_IA
Distance: 2.3731% / 0.02373117

85.4 Italian_Lombardy
4.6 Albanian
3.4 Italian_Bergamo
3.0 Sardinian
2.2 Darginian
1.4 Slovenian

...while Thracians are related to Sardinians and Greeks

Target: BGR_IA
Distance: 2.5746% / 0.02574585

35.0 Sardinian
20.6 Greek_Central_Anatolia
16.4 Greek_Ionia
14.0 Albanian
12.6 Italian_Molise
1.4 Greek_Kos

Now compare my position on K15 diagram with line between proto-Slavs (Belgorod) and Thracian example:



It is very close to this line.


Compare my nMonte K15 results with results of ancient examples.

Beside Slavic, it is Sardinians, Greeks and Bulgarians. No northern Italians here.



https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...nes-K15-nmonte

[Jana]

Agree

[vbnetkhio]

quote

BGR_IA doesn't plot right in gedmatch calculators.

in global25 you can see that actually most of the Balkans, including Serbs, can be modelled as BGR_IA+Baltic/Slavic influence.

only Croats from Zagreb, Slovenian and Hungarians get Slavic + HRV_IA instead.

also what's interesting, Anatolia_IA sample from before the Cimmerian invasion was very similar to BGR_IA.

[Dušan]

This could mean two things:

1) Not all Dinaric area was settled by Illyrians, some of it was settled by Thracian-like people

or

2) Most of my ancestors were by origin eastern from Dinaric area, possibly Kosovo, Moravian part of Serbia, Macedonia.

[Ylla]

I think these samples are not enough, we can't make conclusions about those populations in general.

[Jana]

BGR_IA doesn't plot right in gedmatch calculators.

in global25 you can see that actually most of the Balkans, including Serbs, can be modelled as BGR_IA+Baltic/Slavic influence.

only Croats from Zagreb, Slovenian and Hungarians get Slavic + HRV_IA instead.

also what's interesting, Anatolia_IA sample from before the Cimmerian invasion was very similar to BGR_IA.

Not true at all. My entire family is modeled as Belgorod + Bergamo, I get same on Global 25.

What Croats from Zagreb? It's Croatian average and I cluster close to it.

[Jana]

I think these samples are not enough, we can't make conclusions about those populations in general.

We can, for Croatia at least. All BA samples were same like this one, both from Panonnia and Dalmatia.

[Dušan]

BGR_IA doesn't plot right in gedmatch calculators.

in global25 you can see that actually most of the Balkans, including Serbs, can be modelled as BGR_IA+Baltic/Slavic influence.

only Croats from Zagreb, Slovenian and Hungarians get Slavic + HRV_IA instead.

also what's interesting, Anatolia_IA sample from before the Cimmerian invasion was very similar to BGR_IA.

What is its right position in K15 map-diagram?

[Jana]

Btw Croats who can't be modeled with ancient Croatian samples have origins from central and eastern Balkans, simple as that. Lot of people came from east during Ottoman times.

My Paleo-Balkan ancestors were clear Illyrians.

[vbnetkhio]

Not true at all. My entire family is modeled as Belgorod + Bergamo, I get same on Global 25.

What Croats from Zagreb? It's Croatian average and I cluster close to it.

the Croatian samples in Global25 are from Zagreb and "mainland". Maybe Dalmatian Croats would get BGR_IA.