Moldovan/Romanian GEDmatch Resuts

**~~Ion Basescul~~** · 04-13-2020, 08:25 PM

I also extracted those 9 Gagauz on top, so now I'm waiting for 52 tests to run.

That's how I feel while waiting for my potato PC to process them (that also happens to be my default song when cooking plov):

**~~ixulescu~~** · 04-13-2020, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by Aspirin

Give me sources from Medieval times where they call themselves Romanians. Plus explain why Romanian identity was promoted by elite (very heterogeneous by origin), but wasn't the identity of simple peasants.

The elites didn't give a hoot about questions of identity, the only cared about social positions.

Regarding sources, from the earliest Moldovan chronicles the authors refer to inhabitants of Moldova as either Romanian or Moldovan, or they say that Moldovans are Romanians.

There are no prior proofs on how Moldovans referred to themselves. They might as well have called themselves Bulgarian, but we little reason to believe that.

**Aspirin** · 04-13-2020, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by ixulescu

The elites didn't give a hoot about questions of identity, the only cared about social positions.

Regarding sources, from the earliest Moldovan chronicles the authors refer to inhabitants of Moldova as either Romanian or Moldovan, or they say that Moldovans are Romanians.

There are no prior proofs on how Moldovans referred to themselves. They might as well have called themselves Bulgarian, but we little reason to believe that.

Explain this:

Însă Vlahia, acești gheografi și mai toț istoricii câț scriu de aceste țări, zicea și Moldovei, și ceștiia. Apoi o împarte în doauă: una de sus, alta de jos îi zic; le zic și mai mare și mai mică: cea de sus, adecăte și mai mare, Moldova, cea de jos și mai mică, Ţara această Muntenească numeind, cum îi zic mai mulți așa, că Rumânească numai lăcuitorii ei o chiamă, și doar unii den erdeleani, rumâni. Pentru că și aceia și ceștea numai când să întreabă ce iaste, ei răspund: rumâni. Iar moldoveanii să osebesc, de să răspund: moldovan, săvai că și ei sânt de un neam și de un rod cu ceștia, cum mai nainte mai pre larg vom arăta cu mărturiile multora.

**Leto** · 04-13-2020, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by Aspirin

I don't want go into another useless discussion about identity, but people here always called themselves Moldavians and their language Moldavian. Is not just a coindicdence what Romanian identity, is more like a trend, not like a real nationalism, and is specific mostly for urban heterogenous societiy, not rural area, were people are more homogenous. I never criticize local individuals who identify herself as Romanians, until they start to attack personally me, since vast majority show aggressivity, and love very much to mock and insult, in general they love to mock their own identity, wich is specefic for Western liberals who hate their White identity, vast majority of pro-Romanians are very pro gay, pro multiculturalism, equality. As Ixulescu wrote many times, to be a Romanian you don't need to care about your origins, in fact is more good to forget about them, this is how a real Romanian need to be, bassically you need to be a mongrel. The incident which happen early in this thread, when Basescul posted a video from Caplani, when in the begining is hear simple local peasant music, wich for him sound alien and "Bulgarian", pretty much show what I said above.

I guess many of them associate "Romanianism" with being pro-EU/NATO and you can't be against those things if you're pro-EU. Certainly not today, maybe 20 years ago. It's like the stupid "language nationalism" in Ukraine and to some extent Belarus. "I support liberalism, globalism, don't care about blood or race but God forbid you don't hate the Russian language."

**~~Ion Basescul~~** · 04-13-2020, 09:37 PM

**Aspirin** · 04-13-2020, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by Leto

I guess many of them associate "Romanianism" with being pro-EU/NATO and you can't be against those things if you're pro-EU.

Yes, but exist and the opposite current, in the face of local Moldovenism, which is mostly of Soviet origin, is not really nationalism. And these type of Moldovenists are pro-Russia people, most of them are not even ethnic Moldavians and don't speak the language, is bassicaly the oposite face of the same coin. Many Romanians try to impose what I support especially this type of Moldovenism, because such thing as ethnic Moldovenism don't exist at all. I put myself in the middle, since I don't suport any of these tendencies. One Romanian here without any reason even insulted me as "filthy Bessarabian" because of my position, without any negative attacks towards Romanians from my side.

This identity problem is one of reasons why is so shitty in RM today, and the only good solution I think is the most democartic way, to make a referendum, about language, about the future extern policy evolution, about name of the main population here, and to put a big end in this useless fight. But many oppose this, especially pro-Romanians. I voted in the last 10 years only for pro-EU/pro-Romanian parties, and I am very disapoined in them.

**~~Ion Basescul~~** · 04-13-2020, 10:07 PM

I will start posting Admixture Studio Oracles, nMonte and PCA for each one of them, but I won't finish everything today.
Moldavian reference is the one from the original Eurogenes K13 spreadsheet.

I will start with myself to show how the results will be formatted.

1) Ion Basescul_Chisinau

Code:

Components	%	
North_Atlantic	25.42	
Baltic	29.37	
West_Med	15.04	
West_Asian	9.99	
East_Med	12.91	
Red_Sea	1.53	
South_Asian	0.69	
East_Asian	1.84	
Siberian	2.84	
Amerindian	0.00	
Oceanian	0.37	
Northeast_African	0.00	
Sub-Saharan	0.00

Oracle
Mixed Mode:
1 82.42% Serbian + 17.58% Tatar @ 1.902
2 87.89% Serbian + 12.11% Chuvash @ 2.039
3 89.45% Serbian + 10.55% Mari @ 2.379
4 78.52% Romanian + 21.48% East_Finnish @ 2.436
5 76.17% Romanian + 23.83% Kargopol_Russian @ 2.606
6 55.08% Serbian + 44.92% Moldavian @ 2.631
7 50.39% Moldavian + 49.61% Serbian @ 2.672
8 78.52% Romanian + 21.48% Finnish @ 2.681
9 87.11% Serbian + 12.89% Erzya @ 2.743
10 61.33% Ukrainian + 38.67% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.763

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Serbian @ 4.744
2 100% Moldavian @ 5.484
3 100% Romanian @ 8.023
4 100% Croatian @ 8.636
5 100% Hungarian @ 8.989
6 100% Bulgarian @ 10.676
7 100% Austrian @ 13.395
8 100% East_German @ 14.784
9 100% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 15.519
10 100% South_Polish @ 16.340

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Serbian + 50% Moldavian @ 2.667
2 50% Moldavian + 50% Romanian @ 3.187
3 50% Romanian + 50% Croatian @ 3.255
4 50% Tuscan + 50% Erzya @ 3.277
5 50% Estonian + 50% Central_Greek @ 3.627
6 50% Kargopol_Russian + 50% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.632
7 50% Kargopol_Russian + 50% Tuscan @ 3.719
8 50% Finnish + 50% Central_Greek @ 3.722
9 50% Italian_Abruzzo + 50% Estonian @ 3.873
10 50% Croatian + 50% Bulgarian @ 3.873

Using 3 populations approximation
1 33% Serbian + 33% Serbian + 33% Moldavian @ 2.825
2 33% Romanian + 33% Romanian + 33% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.854
3 33% Moldavian + 33% Moldavian + 33% Romanian @ 2.926
4 33% Romanian + 33% Romanian + 33% Ukrainian @ 3.028
5 33% Moldavian + 33% Romanian + 33% Hungarian @ 3.089
6 33% Romanian + 33% Romanian + 33% South_Polish @ 3.146
7 33% Ukrainian_Lviv + 33% Ukrainian_Lviv + 33% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.172
8 33% Serbian + 33% Moldavian + 33% Moldavian @ 3.241
9 33% Ukrainian_Lviv + 33% Ukrainian + 33% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.248
10 33% Ukrainian_Lviv + 33% South_Polish + 33% South_Italian @ 3.280

Using 4 populations approximation
1 25% Bulgarian + 25% Bulgarian + 25% East_German + 25% Tatar @ 2.286
2 25% Bulgarian + 25% Bulgarian + 25% Austrian + 25% Tatar @ 2.510
3 25% Serbian + 25% Serbian + 25% Serbian + 25% Tatar @ 2.611
4 25% Romanian + 25% Romanian + 25% Romanian + 25% Kargopol_Russian @ 2.631
5 25% Serbian + 25% Serbian + 25% Moldavian + 25% Moldavian @ 2.667
6 25% Erzya + 25% Erzya + 25% Spanish_Cataluna + 25% South_Italian @ 2.741
7 25% Romanian + 25% Romanian + 25% Romanian + 25% East_Finnish @ 2.793
8 25% Kargopol_Russian + 25% Kargopol_Russian + 25% Tuscan + 25% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.854
9 25% Serbian + 25% Serbian + 25% Romanian + 25% Tatar @ 2.862
10 25% Erzya + 25% Erzya + 25% Italian_Abruzzo + 25% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.890

nMonte
Distance: 2.02

55.80% Serbian
39.00% Moldavian
02.60% Kazakh
01.60% Tatar
00.40% Kirgiz
00.20% Nogay
00.20% Romanian
00.20% Xibo

PCA

**~~Ion Basescul~~** · 04-13-2020, 10:15 PM

2) Ion Basescul_dad_Orhei

Code:

Components    %    
North_Atlantic    25.05    
Baltic    32.29    
West_Med    14.01    
West_Asian    11.55    
East_Med    12.00    
Red_Sea    0.18    
South_Asian    1.57    
East_Asian    0.00    
Siberian    1.59    
Amerindian    0.92    
Oceanian    0.00    
Northeast_African    0.29    
Sub-Saharan    0.56

Oracle
Mixed Mode:
1 87.89% Croatian + 12.11% Azeri @ 2.283
2 87.11% Croatian + 12.89% Turkish @ 2.320
3 89.45% Croatian + 10.55% Kurdish @ 2.323
4 89.45% Croatian + 10.55% Armenian @ 2.344
5 94.92% Moldavian + 5.08% Tabassaran @ 2.522
6 94.92% Moldavian + 5.08% Lezgin @ 2.524
7 87.89% Croatian + 12.11% Turkmen @ 2.553
8 89.45% Croatian + 10.55% Iranian @ 2.563
9 95.70% Moldavian + 4.30% Kurdish @ 2.582
10 94.92% Moldavian + 5.08% Kumyk @ 2.619

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Moldavian @ 3.376
2 100% Croatian @ 6.561
3 100% Serbian @ 7.702
4 100% Hungarian @ 8.860
5 100% Romanian @ 10.643
6 100% Bulgarian @ 12.933
7 100% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 13.019
8 100% Austrian @ 13.875
9 100% South_Polish @ 13.969
10 100% Ukrainian @ 14.468

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Bulgarian + 50% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.352
2 50% Moldavian + 50% Moldavian @ 3.376
3 50% Romanian + 50% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.458
4 50% Bulgarian + 50% South_Polish @ 3.535
5 50% Bulgarian + 50% Ukrainian @ 3.697
6 50% Romanian + 50% Ukrainian @ 3.873
7 50% Moldavian + 50% Serbian @ 4.022
8 50% Romanian + 50% South_Polish @ 4.116
9 50% Croatian + 50% Romanian @ 4.390
10 50% Bulgarian + 50% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 4.483

Using 3 populations approximation
1 33% Romanian + 33% Romanian + 33% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.933
2 33% Romanian + 33% Romanian + 33% Kargopol_Russian @ 2.966
3 33% Serbian + 33% Romanian + 33% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.160
4 33% Moldavian + 33% Moldavian + 33% Serbian @ 3.213
5 33% Romanian + 33% Bulgarian + 33% Kargopol_Russian @ 3.236
6 33% Romanian + 33% Romanian + 33% Southwest_Russian @ 3.320
7 33% Moldavian + 33% Croatian + 33% Romanian @ 3.322
8 33% Moldavian + 33% Moldavian + 33% Moldavian @ 3.376
9 33% Romanian + 33% Romanian + 33% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.392
10 33% Romanian + 33% Romanian + 33% Erzya @ 3.396

Using 4 populations approximation
1 25% Bulgarian + 25% Bulgarian + 25% Austrian + 25% Erzya @ 2.719
2 25% Ukrainian + 25% Ukrainian + 25% East_German + 25% Turkish @ 2.893
3 25% Moldavian + 25% Moldavian + 25% Moldavian + 25% Serbian @ 2.999
4 25% Moldavian + 25% Moldavian + 25% Croatian + 25% Romanian @ 3.004
5 25% Moldavian + 25% Moldavian + 25% Moldavian + 25% Romanian @ 3.011
6 25% Moldavian + 25% Moldavian + 25% Croatian + 25% Bulgarian @ 3.182
7 25% Serbian + 25% Serbian + 25% Romanian + 25% Erzya @ 3.224
8 25% Bulgarian + 25% Bulgarian + 25% Ukrainian_Lviv + 25% South_Polish @ 3.296
9 25% Bulgarian + 25% Bulgarian + 25% Austrian + 25% Kargopol_Russian @ 3.320
10 25% Bulgarian + 25% Bulgarian + 25% Ukrainian_Lviv + 25% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.352

nMonte
Distance: 2.48

77.60% Moldavian
11.00% Hungarian
06.60% Romanian
03.40% Lezgin
00.80% Tabassaran
00.20% Bulgarian
00.20% Croatian
00.20% Serbian

PCA

**~~Ion Basescul~~** · 04-13-2020, 11:12 PM

3) Ion Basescul_mom 1/2 Romanian/Moldovan Cahul 1/2 Ukrainian Briceni

Code:

Components    %    
North_Atlantic    20.02    
Baltic    37.13    
West_Med    15.57    
West_Asian    9.83    
East_Med    12.85    
Red_Sea    0.67    
South_Asian    0.99    
East_Asian    1.49    
Siberian    0.36    
Amerindian    0.37    
Oceanian    0.72    
Northeast_African    0.00    
Sub-Saharan    0.00

Oracle
Mixed Mode:
1 79.30% Ukrainian + 20.70% Cypriot @ 4.598
2 57.42% Bulgarian + 42.58% Erzya @ 4.747
3 62.11% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 37.89% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.913
4 81.64% Ukrainian + 18.36% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.009
5 50.39% Bulgarian + 49.61% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 5.030
6 50.39% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 49.61% Bulgarian @ 5.039
7 50.39% Bulgarian + 49.61% Southwest_Russian @ 5.118
8 50.39% Southwest_Russian + 49.61% Bulgarian @ 5.124
9 81.64% Ukrainian + 18.36% Samaritan @ 5.127
10 62.11% Southwest_Russian + 37.89% Greek_Thessaly @ 5.165

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Moldavian @ 6.419
2 100% Croatian @ 8.451
3 100% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 12.546
4 100% Serbian @ 12.625
5 100% Ukrainian @ 13.461
6 100% Hungarian @ 14.379
7 100% South_Polish @ 14.631
8 100% Romanian @ 14.643
9 100% Bulgarian @ 15.494
10 100% Southwest_Russian @ 15.742

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Bulgarian + 50% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 5.033
2 50% Bulgarian + 50% Southwest_Russian @ 5.120
3 50% Bulgarian + 50% Erzya @ 5.430
4 50% Lithuanian + 50% Greek_Thessaly @ 5.647
5 50% Bulgarian + 50% Russian_Smolensk @ 5.896
6 50% Erzya + 50% Greek_Thessaly @ 5.906
7 50% Bulgarian + 50% Estonian_Polish @ 5.951
8 50% Ukrainian + 50% Bulgarian @ 6.000
9 50% Bulgarian + 50% Kargopol_Russian @ 6.159
10 50% Romanian + 50% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 6.329

Using 3 populations approximation
1 33% Southwest_Russian + 33% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 33% Central_Greek @ 5.184
2 33% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 33% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 33% Central_Greek @ 5.234
3 33% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 33% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 33% Greek_Thessaly @ 5.246
4 33% Southwest_Russian + 33% Southwest_Russian + 33% Central_Greek @ 5.267
5 33% Southwest_Russian + 33% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 33% Greek_Thessaly @ 5.278
6 33% Erzya + 33% Lithuanian + 33% South_Italian @ 5.352
7 33% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 33% Russian_Smolensk + 33% Central_Greek @ 5.369
8 33% Southwest_Russian + 33% Southwest_Russian + 33% Greek_Thessaly @ 5.438
9 33% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 33% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 33% East_Sicilian @ 5.510
10 33% Southwest_Russian + 33% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 33% East_Sicilian @ 5.532

Using 4 populations approximation
1 25% Bulgarian + 25% Bulgarian + 25% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 25% Erzya @ 4.713
2 25% Bulgarian + 25% Bulgarian + 25% Southwest_Russian + 25% Erzya @ 4.794
3 25% Bulgarian + 25% Bulgarian + 25% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 25% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 5.033
4 25% Bulgarian + 25% Bulgarian + 25% Southwest_Russian + 25% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 5.038
5 25% Bulgarian + 25% Bulgarian + 25% Southwest_Russian + 25% Southwest_Russian @ 5.120
6 25% Bulgarian + 25% Bulgarian + 25% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 25% Kargopol_Russian @ 5.253
7 25% Ukrainian + 25% Ukrainian + 25% Ukrainian + 25% Cypriot @ 5.293
8 25% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 25% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 25% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 25% Algerian_Jew @ 5.297
9 25% Bulgarian + 25% Bulgarian + 25% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 25% Estonian_Polish @ 5.309
10 25% Bulgarian + 25% Bulgarian + 25% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 25% Russian_Smolensk @ 5.359

nMonte
Distance: 5.84

53.80% Moldavian
17.60% Bulgarian
15.80% Erzya
09.60% Ukrainian_Belgorod
03.20% Cypriot

PCA

**~~Ion Basescul~~** · 04-13-2020, 11:16 PM

4) Moldova_725_R01C01_or.Straseni

Code:

Components	%	
North_Atlantic	24.58	
Baltic	31.08	
West_Med	13.08	
West_Asian	6.06	
East_Med	16.71	
Red_Sea	3.33	
South_Asian	1.41	
East_Asian	0.00	
Siberian	2.32	
Amerindian	1.43	
Oceanian	0.00	
Northeast_African	0.00	
Sub-Saharan	0.00

Oracle
Mixed Mode:
1 51.95% Estonian + 48.05% Ashkenazi @ 1.406
2 50.39% Ashkenazi + 49.61% Estonian @ 1.931
3 58.20% Estonian + 41.80% Algerian_Jew @ 1.963
4 58.20% Estonian + 41.80% Italian_Jew @ 1.972
5 58.20% Estonian + 41.80% Sephardic_Jew @ 2.438
6 62.89% Estonian_Polish + 37.11% Italian_Jew @ 2.537
7 62.89% Estonian_Polish + 37.11% Sephardic_Jew @ 2.603
8 62.11% Belorussian + 37.89% Italian_Jew @ 2.673
9 58.98% Polish + 41.02% Ashkenazi @ 2.695
10 59.77% Estonian + 40.23% Tunisian_Jew @ 2.771

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Serbian @ 6.853
2 100% Moldavian @ 8.268
3 100% Romanian @ 9.677
4 100% Croatian @ 9.957
5 100% Hungarian @ 10.615
6 100% Bulgarian @ 11.612
7 100% Austrian @ 15.700
8 100% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 16.151
9 100% East_German @ 16.834
10 100% South_Polish @ 16.859

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Estonian + 50% Ashkenazi @ 1.783
2 50% Estonian + 50% East_Sicilian @ 3.318
3 50% Finnish + 50% Ashkenazi @ 3.618
4 50% Lithuanian + 50% Ashkenazi @ 3.701
5 50% Lithuanian + 50% West_Sicilian @ 3.733
6 50% Greek_Thessaly + 50% Belorussian @ 3.753
7 50% East_Finnish + 50% Ashkenazi @ 3.900
8 50% Estonian + 50% Central_Greek @ 3.907
9 50% East_Finnish + 50% East_Sicilian @ 4.009
10 50% Greek_Thessaly + 50% Estonian_Polish @ 4.065

Using 3 populations approximation
1 33% Southwest_Russian + 33% Polish + 33% Italian_Jew @ 2.918
2 33% South_Polish + 33% Southwest_Russian + 33% Italian_Jew @ 3.051
3 33% Ukrainian_Lviv + 33% South_Polish + 33% Ashkenazi @ 3.131
4 33% South_Polish + 33% Ukrainian + 33% Ashkenazi @ 3.176
5 33% Ukrainian + 33% Southwest_Russian + 33% Italian_Jew @ 3.213
6 33% Southwest_Russian + 33% Polish + 33% Sephardic_Jew @ 3.272
7 33% South_Polish + 33% South_Polish + 33% Ashkenazi @ 3.274
8 33% South_Polish + 33% Southwest_Russian + 33% Sephardic_Jew @ 3.401
9 33% South_Polish + 33% Southwest_Russian + 33% Algerian_Jew @ 3.402
10 33% Estonian_Polish + 33% Estonian_Polish + 33% Italian_Jew @ 3.416

Using 4 populations approximation
1 25% Estonian + 25% Estonian + 25% Central_Greek + 25% Ashkenazi @ 2.190
2 25% Lithuanian + 25% Lithuanian + 25% West_Sicilian + 25% Ashkenazi @ 2.789
3 25% Lithuanian + 25% Lithuanian + 25% Spanish_Cataluna + 25% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.420
4 25% Lithuanian + 25% Lithuanian + 25% Spanish_Cataluna + 25% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.446
5 25% East_Finnish + 25% East_Finnish + 25% West_Sicilian + 25% Ashkenazi @ 3.457
6 25% Belorussian + 25% Belorussian + 25% North_Italian + 25% Ashkenazi @ 3.470
7 25% East_Finnish + 25% East_Finnish + 25% Central_Greek + 25% Ashkenazi @ 3.492
8 25% Lithuanian + 25% Lithuanian + 25% Spanish_Cataluna + 25% Samaritan @ 3.505
9 25% Estonian_Polish + 25% Estonian_Polish + 25% South_Dutch + 25% Samaritan @ 3.536
10 25% Estonian + 25% Estonian + 25% Central_Greek + 25% Italian_Jew @ 3.546

nMonte

Distance: 4.73

70.20% Serbian
15.80% Estonian_Polish
06.00% Yemenite_Jew
02.80% Saami_Finland
02.80% Southwest_Russian
00.60% Croatian
00.60% Mari
00.60% West_Greenlander
00.40% Ashkenazi
00.20% Belorussian

PCA