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Thread: So Celts were North Europeans after all?

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    Davidski said that today should be official publication of Furtwängler et al. 2020 study!
    Last edited by Peterski; 04-20-2020 at 03:04 AM.
    My DNA Origin analysis for 16 EUR (you get 2 reports examining ancestry from 2114 regions, 190 countries): https://www.exploreyourdna.com/DNAOrigin.aspx

    This analysis is not based on G25 but on ADMIXTURE. And it has more regions than any other DNA test!

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    Place your bets, I think it's safe to say Celts should be somewhere between 35% and 45% Steppe and between 15% and 20% WHG, I'd be surprised it it was different.

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    Meh only 5 samples younger than 2000 BCE and only 1 is from the iron age I believe, all 5 samples are between 34-47% Steppe and the iron age one is kinda East-European in G25(10% Eastern HG) and has R1a.

    https://static-content.springer.com/...MOESM1_ESM.pdf

    Edit:Actually there is another iron age sample from 200-0 BCE. It's SX18. It's about 30% Steppe and 15% WHG.
    Last edited by SharpFork; 04-20-2020 at 01:54 PM.

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    Who thought we needed more bronze age samples from central Europe, get working on the iron age people lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by SharpFork View Post
    Who thought we needed more bronze age samples from central Europe, get working on the iron age people lol
    so what was the carbon dating of the samples in the op?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raizen View Post
    so what was the carbon dating of the samples in the op?
    MX188 Spreitenbach CWC (CH) 2495-2399BC M423 I2a1a2
    MX190 Spreitenbach CWC (CH) 2860-2460BC M423 I2a1a2
    MX192 Spreitenbach CWC (CH) 2571-2513BC M423 I2a1a2
    MX195 Spreitenbach CWC (CH) 2470-2050BC M423 I2a1a2

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    We compared present-day Swiss people to regional Final Neolithic populations (Spreitenbach, Bad Zurzach, Wartau) to test whether there are additional ancestry components in present-day Swiss people. For that analysis, we made use of information available in the present-day dataset (POPRES) about the self-reported language group and split the individuals into three linguistic regions, as they were shown to be distinguishable genetically in previous studies27: German-speaking, French-speaking, and Italian-speaking Switzerland. To test for continuity between the ancient and present-day population we used the method qpWave from the ADMIXTOOLS package19 and found that a simple continuity can be rejected (p = 0.0003) for all three linguistic regions separately and the entire present-day Swiss population combined, consistent also with the PCA (Fig. 1c).

    To assess whether ancient Swiss individuals from the Final Neolithic are symmetrically related to different linguistic present-day groups, or share an excess of alleles with any of them, we calculated D-statistics of the form D(Mbuti, Test, Swiss–French, Swiss–Italian), D(Mbuti, Test, Swiss–German, Swiss–Italian), and D(Mbuti, Test, Swiss–French, Swiss–German) where “Test” are the different Neolithic groups. The first two D-statistics were, with few exceptions, all negative with a |Z| ≥ 1.099 (maximum values to be found in D(Mbuti, Test, Swiss–French, Swiss–Italian) for Singen with −3.431 and Bad Zurzach −3.068) indicating the least genetic affinity of the Final Neolithic and Early Bronze Age individuals of this study to the Italian-speaking group in our present-day Swiss dataset. For D(Mbuti, Test, Swiss–French, Swiss–German) some variation between the sites can be found (Fig. 5) with the older sites sharing more alleles with the French-speaking group, and the younger sites being more similar with the German-speaking group.
    swiss-italians are the least native swiss people as expected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vid Flumina View Post
    MX188 Spreitenbach CWC (CH) 2495-2399BC M423 I2a1a2
    MX190 Spreitenbach CWC (CH) 2860-2460BC M423 I2a1a2
    MX192 Spreitenbach CWC (CH) 2571-2513BC M423 I2a1a2
    MX195 Spreitenbach CWC (CH) 2470-2050BC M423 I2a1a2
    ok, makes more sense. i think it is now safe to assume central european celts were quite southern european then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vid Flumina View Post
    MX188 Spreitenbach CWC (CH) 2495-2399BC M423 I2a1a2
    MX190 Spreitenbach CWC (CH) 2860-2460BC M423 I2a1a2
    MX192 Spreitenbach CWC (CH) 2571-2513BC M423 I2a1a2
    MX195 Spreitenbach CWC (CH) 2470-2050BC M423 I2a1a2
    Yep, not surprising. Can't blame Token of course, Davidski or whoever uploaded the samples rushed to judgement.

    I believe these guys are older than any other samples with a Bell Beaker genetic profile(whilist the typical CWC profile is already found in Ukraine before 4000 BC), and of course they're archaeologically CWC, which does confirm BBs were just another group of CWC like Davidski has been theorizing, not a different southern movement through Hungary from contemporary with CWC Yamnaya. Aesch25 from 2864-2501 is also the oldest R1b-L51, unsure of his autosomal profile. Unsurprisingly the neolithic farmers all G2a/I2, not a J/E to be found in sight.
    The Guanche skulls as a whole are unlike those of modern European Mediterraneans, and resemble northern European series most closely, especially those in which a brachycephalic element is present, as in Burgundian and Alemanni series.
    divided them into clearly differentiated types, which include a Mediterranean, a Nordic, a "Guanche," and an Alpine. The "Guanche" accounts for 50 per cent of the whole on the four islands of Teneriffe, Gomera, Gran Canaria, and Hierro; the Nordic for 31 per cent, the Mediterranean for 13 per cent, and the Alpine
    oldschool anthropology

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