French Regional Averages by Tomenable

**Aren** · 05-21-2020, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by Peterski

Note that I excluded from Provence all northern-shifted individuals, what remained is very close to Piedmont.

So you excluded natives to make it look more North Italian?

If you remember the French member Petalpusher, his family was from Provence and they scored more like Central Frenchmen. And they had deep roots from Provence near Monaco.

**Peterski** · 05-21-2020, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by Aren

If you remember the French member Petalpusher, his family was from Provence and they scored more like Central Frenchmen. And they had deep roots from Provence near Monaco.

Petalpusher has immigrant roots from Northern France IIRC. I'm trying to find his K15/K13 results, have you seen?

Originally Posted by Aren

So you excluded natives to make it look more North Italian?

Here are the ones that I excluded from Provence and added to "Central French" cluster:

Eurogenes K13:

(you can see which are their top 3 regional averages in Single Distances using Vahaduo)

Code:

Provence_North1,43.4,15.03,20.62,7.47,9.79,1.67,0.6,0,0,0.2,0.63,0,0.6
Provence_North2,41.67,17.52,17.34,7.99,8.2,5.15,0.54,0,0.97,0.2,0.42,0,0
Provence_North3,40.46,25.89,18.46,1.68,10.3,0,1.52,0,0,0.49,0,1.21,0
Provence_North4,42.23,15.28,22.22,8.16,9.26,0.72,0.2,1.22,0,0,0,0,0.72
Provence_North5,35.28,17.97,21.73,8.66,10.05,1.96,0,1.05,0,0.45,1.37,0,1.49
Provence_North6,40.37,17.01,23.71,2.36,13.63,0.54,0,0,0,0,0.92,1.29,0.16
Provence_North7,43.98,17.81,20.87,0.72,11.56,2.24,0,1.63,0,0,0.57,0.63,0
Provence_North8,40.22,17.44,17.83,4.5,12.66,2.78,0,0.21,0.85,0.19,0,0.51,2.79
Provence_North9,42.31,16.77,26.78,2.09,8.95,1.12,0,0.44,0,0.31,0,0.39,0.84
Provence_North10,39.54,13.81,24.37,6.19,9.84,3.2,0,1.64,0,0.42,0,0.74,0.24
Provence_North11,36.98,18.09,24.67,6.88,10.66,1.24,0.52,0,0,0.34,0.61,0,0
Provence_North12,43.21,16.52,18.34,6.57,9.48,2.89,1.33,0,0.16,0,1.1,0.39,0

Eurogenes K15:

Code:

Provence_North1,30.27,24.64,7.68,3.56,17.6,7.15,5.94,1.69,0.24,0,0,0.02,0.56,0,0.65
Provence_North2,27.89,25.66,8.76,5.92,13.03,5.79,7.31,4.38,0.33,0,0.74,0,0.2,0,0
Provence_North3,25.81,25.78,13.7,10.76,14.29,0.03,7.88,0,0.55,0,0,0.07,0,1.14,0
Provence_North4,27.39,26.64,8.73,3.53,17.39,8.49,4.92,1.51,0,0.71,0,0,0,0.11,0.58
Provence_North5,25.84,20.18,8.47,6.12,18.79,9.04,6.04,1.88,0,0.87,0,0.22,1.3,0,1.24
Provence_North6,30.26,22.82,8.81,3.66,19.37,2.2,10.36,0.56,0,0,0,0,0.57,1.14,0.24
Provence_North7,28.01,27.46,7.45,6.54,17.39,0,8.44,2.41,0,1.17,0,0,0.57,0.57,0
Provence_North8,28.91,21.37,8.33,6.28,14.27,4.94,9.82,2.36,0,0.07,0.26,0.04,0,0.79,2.56
Provence_North9,29.8,24.05,10.05,3.32,23.5,2.76,3.77,1.04,0,0.08,0,0.12,0,1.1,0.41
Provence_North10,26.31,23.84,4.01,7.55,20.31,4.92,7.43,3.42,0,1.16,0,0.2,0,0.77,0.07
Provence_North11,21.56,25.75,11.58,5.75,19.38,5.46,9.16,0.88,0,0,0,0.05,0.44,0,0
Provence_North12,30.49,25.99,5.32,6.29,15.04,6.65,4.41,3.38,1.07,0,0,0,1.03,0.33,0

**Peterski** · 05-21-2020, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by Aren

So you excluded natives to make it look more North Italian?

I called it Provence_North (n=12). Here are top 3 Single Distances for each of these samples:

Eurogenes K13:

Spoiler!

Eurogenes K15:

Spoiler!

Average in K13:

Code:

Provence_North,40.80,17.43,21.41,5.27,10.37,1.96,0.39,0.52,0.17,0.22,0.47,0.43,0.57

Average in K15:

Code:

Provence_North,27.71,24.52,8.57,5.77,17.53,4.79,7.12,1.96,0.18,0.34,0.08,0.06,0.39,0.50,0.48

**gixajo** · 05-21-2020, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by Aren

So you excluded natives to make it look more North Italian?

If you remember the French member Petalpusher, his family was from Provence and they scored more like Central Frenchmen. And they had deep roots from Provence near Monaco.

There was also a half French/half Spanish French member whose French father from Southern france was more Iberian than any other Spanish or Portuguese member here. Even the father was more Iberian than her Spanish wife.

Edit: I don´t remember his nickname, but he posted all their gedmatch results.

**Peterski** · 05-21-2020, 08:59 PM

Aren, do you think any of those 12 samples which I excluded as Provence_North should be added back to "regular" Provence average?

Some of them have even Alsace or Belgica as 1st closest distance.. you think they are natives in the area, not Piedmont-like samples?

=====

As for "regular" Provence (not Northern):

Provence16 and Provence17 are Aosta-like, I consider them native to coastal Provence.

I'm also about to add one more sample (Provence18), so there will be a total of n=18.

**Peterski** · 05-21-2020, 09:06 PM

And here is one more sample that I'm considering adding to the "regular" Provence average:

(this sample is listed as a person from Provence, but autosomally a bit closer to Septimania)

K13:

Code:

Provence18,37.08,16,23.93,4.92,12.07,3.42,0,0.95,0.81,0.25,0.35,0,0.2

Distance to: Provence18
6.54312616 FRA_Septimania
6.75668558 FRA_Provence
7.38568209 FRA_Central
11.01306497 FRA_Alsace
11.15754005 FRA_Belgica
17.55055840 FRA_Armorica
18.30290687 FRA_Aquitania

K15:

Code:

Provence18,17.97,29.78,8.86,6.01,18.21,5.9,7.87,3.65,0,1.11,0.37,0,0.28,0,0

Distance to: Provence18
7.79562698 FRA_Septimania
10.13105128 FRA_Provence
10.43514255 FRA_Central
13.82177991 FRA_Alsace
14.26864394 FRA_Belgica
14.29258899 FRA_Aquitania
18.83954617 FRA_Armorica

=====

I go to sleep now, I will update Provence with this new sample tomorrow.

Feel free to find more Provence results if you think this is so controversial.

**~~JamesBond007~~** · 05-21-2020, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by gixajo

Which distances are acceptable in results?

5 and below for GEDmatch for Vahaduo and 3 and below for G25 for Vahaduo

**~~JamesBond007~~** · 05-21-2020, 09:17 PM

Distance to: kevin
5.88752919 FRA_Armorica
11.80463468 FRA_Belgica
13.76814076 FRA_Alsace
14.18872792 Swiss_German
15.45479214 FRA_Central
21.49819992 FRA_Septimania

Distance to: kevin
4.61092182 FRA_Armorica
9.48420265 FRA_Belgica
11.54659690 FRA_Alsace
11.96913113 Swiss_German
13.77205504 FRA_Central
20.16780851 FRA_Septimania
23.43594462 FRA_Provence
27.19939338 FRA_Aquitania

**Peterski** · 05-21-2020, 09:23 PM

OK, last updates of Provence & Central for today. I can no longer edit the opening post (1st post).

Tomorrow I will probably ask some admin to let me edit it again in order to update the averages.

Provence n=18

=====

Eurogenes K15:

Code:

FRA_Provence,21.54,24.19,7.16,4.53,18.02,6.13,14.18,2.51,0.30,0.18,0.19,0.24,0.24,0.44,0.15
FRA_Central,27.42,27.40,8.88,6.00,16.19,3.94,6.84,1.52,0.33,0.15,0.21,0.29,0.25,0.38,0.19

Eurogenes K13:

Code:

FRA_Provence,35.29,14.21,22.15,6.32,17.28,2.40,0.34,0.30,0.29,0.39,0.37,0.40,0.24
FRA_Central,42.44,18.30,20.54,4.81,9.77,1.58,0.50,0.25,0.35,0.45,0.37,0.38,0.24

^^^
In K13 this average is closest to Swiss Italians:

Distance to: FRA_Provence
3.23264598 Swiss-Italian
(...)

**gixajo** · 05-21-2020, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by JamesBond007

5 and below for GEDmatch for Vahaduo and 3 and below for G25 for Vahaduo

I guess, this is the is the usual norm with Vahaduo G25 and Gedmatch.

I asked that because in some Gedmatch calculators in Vahaduo, distances are sometimes huge(even in natives) and I didn´t know exactly what were acceptable distances in this one, because we didn´t see any native member posting his results.