Origin of I2-din. Slavic, Paleo-Balkan or?

[vbnetkhio]

By the way, for the sake of truth, Slavs didn't invade Illyrians, they migrated in numbers after the devastating Justinian pandemics which weakened the Illyrian population. Otherwise, on their best i seriously doubt Illyrians will allow Slavs to migrate en masse.

Roman.

[Jana]

Thread was opened by Serbian troll anyway, who just wanted to make fights, on SRB/CRO forums he promotes Slavic origin of I2 din clades and makes fun of autochtonists as he is far from stupid.

[Konstantinos]

Ad nauseam, why can't we wait for ancient samples. If after extensive sampling it's not found in Balkans before 5th c AD it means it came with Slavs, then take the next step to investigate if it was originally Slavic or came from elsewhere.

[Jana]

Ad nauseam, why can't we wait for ancient samples. If after extensive sampling it's not found in Balkans before 5th c AD it means it came with Slavs, then take the next step to investigate if it was originally Slavic or came from elsewhere.

Only after you do the same for all other hg and stop claiming they are this and that. Because by that criteria you have absolutely no proof for anything
It's Slavic, live with it.

And yes we have I2-din ancient samples which are slavic, unlike R1a.

[vbnetkhio]

Ad nauseam, why can't we wait for ancient samples. If after extensive sampling it's not found in Balkans before 5th c AD it means it came with Slavs, then take the next step to investigate if it was originally Slavic or came from elsewhere.

you can wait for decades. there will never be an extensive enough ancient sampling to use them as a sole proof.

instead, we can draw conclusions from a combination of ancient samples and the distribution and dating of subclades. why ignore the other part?

[Konstantinos]

Only after you do the same for all other hg and stop claiming they are this and that. Because by that criteria you have absolutely no proof for anything
It's Slavic, live with it.

And yes we have I2-din ancient samples which are slavic, unlike R1a.

You are deranged. Show me where I said I have proof for anything. Instead I'm one of the few who speaks very cautiously. Belonging to ancient Slavs doesn't mean it wasn't present in other people too. Please show me the peer-reviewed studies for what is Slavic and what not and the relevant quotes of the scientists, I'll wait. Fuck off otherwise.

[Konstantinos]

you can wait for decades. there will never be an extensive enough ancient sampling to use them as a sole proof.

instead, we can draw conclusions from a combination of ancient samples and the distribution and dating of subclades. why ignore the other part?

I'm saying without enough ancient samples we can't be 100% sure. The more info we have the more educated guesses we can make. Right now we know that I2-Din underwent a founder effect roughly coinciding(but not precisely) with the arrival of Slavs in the Balkans and everyone under this clade descends from this MRCA. This doesn't exclude the possibility that this clade was present in the Balkans and was swept by. Couple with the fact that the assumed more "Slavic" Slavs(you know what I mean), East and West are dominated by R1a while South Slavs are different autosomally and I2-Din mostly. Coincidence or not, this can be properly answered by ancient DNA. If we don't have enough, we can't take the most possible scenario and present it as fact.

[Jana]

You are deranged. Show me where I said I have proof for anything. Instead I'm one of the few who speaks very cautiously. Belonging to ancient Slavs doesn't mean it wasn't present in other people too. Please show me the peer-reviewed studies for what is Slavic and what not and the relevant quotes of the scientists, I'll wait. Fuck off otherwise.

Show me peer-reviewed studies who claims Greek are of Greek origin and not of other (foreign) people, otherwise fuck off.
Bonus: my paternal side subclade, who does it bleong to, ancient Martians?

https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-A5913/

Now leave us alone.

[Jana]

From wiki:

However, in comparison to older research which argued a prehistoric autochthonous origin of the haplogroup I2 in Croatia,[nb 1] as already Battaglia et al. (2009) observed highest variance of the haplogroup in Ukraine, Zupan et al. (2013) noted that it suggests it arrived with Slavic migration from the homeland which was in present-day Ukraine.[16] The most recent research by O.M. Utevska (2017), concluded that the haplogroup STR haplotypes have the highest diversity in Ukraine, with ancestral STR marker result "DYS448=20" comprising "Dnieper-Carpathian" cluster, while younger derived result "DYS448=19" comprising the "Balkan cluster" which is predominant among the South Slavs.[17] This "Balkan cluster" also has the highest variance in Ukraine, which indicates that the very high frequency in the Western Balkan is because of a founder effect.[17] Utevska calculated that the STR cluster divergence and its secondary expansion from the middle reaches of the Dnieper river or from Eastern Carpathians towards the Balkan peninsula happened approximately 2,860 ± 730 years ago, relating it to the times before Slavs, but much after the decline of the Tripolye culture[17]. More specifically, the cluster is represented by a single SNP, I-PH908, known as I2a1a2b1a1a1c in ISOGG phylogenetic tree (2018), and according to YFull YTree it formed and had TMRCA approximately 1,800 YBP.[15]

Source: http://nrcrm.gov.ua/science/councils/dissertation/

Now go questioning why are north Germanics mainly I1 while western ones are R1b, stupid slavophobe.

[Konstantinos]

Show me peer-reviewed studies who claims Greek are of Greek origin and not of other (foreign) people, otherwise fuck off.
Bonus: my paternal side subclade, who does it bleong to, ancient Martians?

https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-A5913/

Now leave us alone.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5565772/

"We could also compare the Mycenaeans—again, the first speakers of the Greek language—to modern people from Greece who are very similar to them, but with lower early Neolithic ancestry"

These are quotes from scientists. Now can you do the same?