Origin of I2-din. Slavic, Paleo-Balkan or?

[vbnetkhio]

I'm saying without enough ancient samples we can't be 100% sure. The more info we have the more educated guesses we can make. Right now we know that I2-Din underwent a founder effect roughly coinciding(but not precisely) with the arrival of Slavs in the Balkans and everyone under this clade descends from this MRCA.

No, the TMRCA was 2000 years ago, +- a few hundred. Some scholars place the ethnogenesis of proto-Slavs around 200 bc. That's the closest event relevant to the TMRCA i can think of. Some place it much earlier though.

This doesn't exclude the possibility that this clade was present in the Balkans and was swept by.

you are forgetting west and east Slavs spread i2a-din with them too.

Even if the "i2a-din people" were originally non-Slavic they:
1) lived right next to Polesia
2) were completely absorbed by early Slavs
3) mixed so thouroughly with early Slavs that wherever Slavs went, they brought i2a-din with them.

or it was just Slavs.

Couple with the fact that the assumed more "Slavic" Slavs(you know what I mean), East and West are dominated by R1a while South Slavs are different autosomally and I2-Din mostly. Coincidence or not, this can be properly answered by ancient DNA. If we don't have enough, we can't take the most possible scenario and present it as fact.

Serbs have around 35% i2a-din, but 25% of the very young subclade I-PH908. take that away, and there is 10% i2a-din, which is quite low even for a lot of east and west Slavic regions. We have a low i2a-din variance, in other words.

This is the rule number one of haplogroups. More important than anyhing else.

[Jana]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5565772/

"We could also compare the Mycenaeans—again, the first speakers of the Greek language—to modern people from Greece who are very similar to them, but with lower early Neolithic ancestry"

These are quotes from scientists. Now can you do the same?

70% similar, yes. I posted you scientific work about I2-din by Ukrainian scientsts. In my dad subclade are only people with Slavic paternal origin, and not anyone else.

Deal with it Greek mongrelised with Slavs, Vlachs and Albanians.

[Jana]

Thankfully we have Mycenean genomes online. They are much closer to south Italians than to modern Macedonian Greeks, heheh.

Distance to: GRC_Mycenaean

0.04621737 Italian_Calabria
0.04809307 Italian_Campania
0.04995370 Italian_Apulia
0.04999673 Italian_Basilicata
0.05085882 Sicilian_East
0.05100425 Greek_Kos
0.05364111 Italian_Jew
0.05422879 Italian_Abruzzo
0.05499403 Italian_Molise
0.05550294 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.05562512 Greek_Crete
0.05592299 Greek_Izmir
0.05626354 Maltese
0.05656327 Italian_Lazio
0.05678270 Romaniote_Jew
0.05702455 Greek_Peloponnese
0.05864589 Sicilian_West
0.05865506 Italian_Umbria
0.05947335 Sephardic_Jew
0.06132990 Italian_Marche
0.06302908 Ashkenazi_Poland
0.06323574 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.06498297 Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.06505368 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.06516684 Cypriot
0.06542537 French_Corsica
0.06565772 Ashkenazi_Russia
0.06637160 Italian_Tuscany
0.07008565 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.07037674 Greek_Thessaly
0.07139643 Moroccan_Jew
0.07313342 Albanian
0.07453769 Tunisian_Jew
0.07526313 Italian_Piedmont
0.07622365 Syrian_Jew
0.07658673 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.07700188 Libyan_Jew
0.07977134 Swiss_Italian
0.08043459 Italian_Lombardy
0.08231298 Italian_Bergamo
0.08324580 Sardinian
0.08393354 Lebanese_Christian
0.08397626 Druze
0.08401142 Italian_Liguria
0.08704086 Lebanese_Druze
0.08816327 Italian_Veneto
0.08944131 Karaite_Egypt
0.09038954 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
0.09124607 Lebanese_Muslim
0.09219824 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige

[Konstantinos]

70% similar, yes. I posted you scientific work about I2-din by Ukrainian scientsts. In my dad subclade are only people with Slavic paternal origin, and not anyone else.

Deal with it Greek mongrelised with Slavs, Vlachs and Albanians.

70% is out of your ass, they don't mention any percentage. This is Mycenaean Greeks, before even the Dorian invasion. Completion of the process at least for Greece proper was after 800 BC. Right now it's your word against scientists. Meanwhile check the wording of the Slavic studies, they use suggest or could a lot, because they are cautious as the picture is not complete yet. You have clear issues so I won't continue any further here.

[Jana]

70% is out of your ass, they don't mention any percentage. This is Mycenaean Greeks, before even the Dorian invasion. Completion of the process at least for Greece proper was after 800 BC. Right now it's your word against scientists. Meanwhile check the wording of the Slavic studies, they use suggest or could a lot, because they are cautious as the picture is not complete yet. You have clear issues so I won't continue any further here.

We don't care, Slavs are not xenophobic like Greeks and know they mixed with other groups.
You don't cluster with Myceneans, not even close. Keep dreaming about Hellenic purity nuttie.

[bained]

"Utevska calculated that the STR cluster divergence and its secondary expansion from the middle reaches of the Dnieper river or from Eastern Carpathians towards the Balkan peninsula happened approximately 2,860 ± 730 years ago, relating it to the times before Slavs"

Do you even read what you post?

[Jana]

"Utevska calculated that the STR cluster divergence and its secondary expansion from the middle reaches of the Dnieper river or from Eastern Carpathians towards the Balkan peninsula happened approximately 2,860 ± 730 years ago, relating it to the times before Slavs"

Do you even read what you post?

Do you? +- 730 years
My father's clade is from 6th century after Christ

why do you larp as Bulgar btw? You are mostly Thracian by blood.

[MoroLP]

Utevska et al. study is based on Y-STR which is less accurate than a calculation of Y-SNP done for example by YFull.

[Jugo]

First of all you should learn the difference between I2 and subtypes of I2, because we are talking about the last one and these are not same. Indeed the pure version of I2 is paleo-european, but this type doesn't exist nowadays only it's subtypes and these subtypes (like I2a-din) is not so old and connected to the slavic ethnogenesis, other subtypes connected to others ethnogenesis for example r1b-u106 is germanic, n1c1 is uralic etc.

First of all I know the difference between I2 and the subtypes of I2 and the subtype you are referring to isn't actually connected to Slavic ethnogenesis but Balkan Bronze Age as it's only 8% in Ukraine and even less in Russia. It actually doesn't make any sense to be linked to Slavic ethnogeneses (plural) as it's not literally presented in the Slavic heartlands that much but in ridiculously small percentages hence it doesn't really come from there, the Ukrainian-Russian steppes and countries. It's Balkan Bronze Age component, the subtype you are referring to.

[Jana]

First of all I know the difference between I2 and the subtypes of I2 and the subtype you are referring to isn't actually connected to Slavic ethnogenesis but Balkan Bronze Age as it's only 8% in Ukraine and even less in Russia. It actually doesn't make any sense to be linked to Slavic ethnogeneses (plural) as it's not literally presented in the Slavic heartlands that much but in ridiculously small percentages hence it doesn't really come from there, the Ukrainian-Russian steppes and countries. It's Balkan Bronze Age component, the subtype you are referring to.

There are no Balkan bronze age samples who tested positive for it so please don't make up things.
Croatian bronze age samples tested R1b-L23 and J2b2 while Bulgarian bronze age tested R1a Z93.

I2 din reaches 25% in Polesia, which is Slavic heartleand.