R1a-z93 in Kyrgyz people. Explanation?

[Leto]

First I would like to say I don't have any axes to grind against either Turkics or Iranics since I have ancestry from both just like modern Turks or Azeri so I'll tell it as the evidence supports.

Once upon a time and for a long time Indo-Europeans and Indo-Iranians and their R1a dominated Central Asia and the Eurasian steppe. So basically 3000 year old Andronovo and their 2500 year old Scythian and Sarmatian relatives and their R1a were Indo-Iranian. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andronovo_culture Fortunately Iranic languages are quite different from Turkic languages so it's easy to see that Scythians spoke Iranic language.

Also not all East Eurasian admixture in Central or West Asia came from Turkics. For example the East Eurasian admixture in 2500 year old Scythians predated the arrival of Turkics in Central Asia. There are still peoples in Central Asia that didn't adopt Turkic languages. For example in Tajikistan (Tajiks).

So the R1a in Kirgiz is an Indo-Iranian founder effect that survived their Turkification.

The majority of ancestry in West Asian groups such as Azeris and Turks is NOT from Turkics because the original Turkics from Mongolia area were mostly East Eurasian when they moved west from the Altai. In fact , Mongolians and Turks share a proto Mongolic/Turkic language.

The first Turkic Khagnate didn't show up in Central Asia until about 1500 years ago (Gokturks) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_peoples

Good post. This time I agree with you.

[Yaglakar]

You have some useful points which I don’t disagree with. The rest I need to think about

You don't have to think about it. It's nonsense. It doesn't matter who reported what when the Sogdians left their own texts. The language is quite distinct from West Iranian languages, and branches would not be able to diverge significantly within such a small time scale.

[aklifal]

It just occurred to me that Ashina sounds similar to pashto Ospina which is iron and in kurdish it’s Asin. Also proto-turkic Ana - grandmom is same in pashto . So it looks like some iranics borrowed turkic words and probably visa versa whereas some iranics totally language shifted to turkic

the name ashina is sogdian for blue, which symbolizes east, it has no relation to that word. sogdian was one of the official languages of kökturks. still doesn't mean that ruling tribe was of "iranic" origin.

Also proto-turkic Ana - grandmom is same in pashto .

LOL 'ana' is an infantile word, similiar to 'nanny' in english. that's some really tryhard etymology right there.

[Zoro]

You don't have to think about it. It's nonsense. It doesn't matter who reported what when the Sogdians left their own texts. The language is quite distinct from West Iranian languages, and branches would not be able to diverge significantly within such a small time scale.

I know better than anyone they’re quite diverged since i can speak both Pashto and Kurdish but i also know both languages have picked up things from their neighboring languages over the past 1000 years. But yeah based on what I can see it appears like a 3000 year divergence

Also Pashto has Indo-Aryan Layer also. I see quite a few Sanskrit related words in Pashto that I don’t see in other Iranian languages. Those Sanskrit words may be Avastan

[Zoro]

the name ashina is sogdian for blue, which symbolizes east, it has no relation to that word. sogdian was one of the official languages of kökturks. still doesn't mean that ruling tribe was of "iranic" origin.



LOL 'ana' is an infantile word, similiar to 'nanny' in english. that's some really tryhard etymology right there.

Well shin is both Kurdish and pashto for blue but I thought Ashina was turkic

Ana in pashto is unlike what kurds or persians call grandma that’s why I thought they borrowed it from turkic

[eatensemn]

So the R1a in Kirgiz is an Indo-Iranian founder effect that survived their Turkification.

The majority of ancestry in West Asian groups such as Azeris and Turks is NOT from Turkics because the original Turkics from Mongolia area were mostly East Eurasian when they moved west from the Altai.

While you're trying to tell something, you have enormous mistakes:

1-R1a was also present in very early turks, along with r1b, j2 etc. So, when r1a itself was one of the founders of turks, you can't "turkify" it anymore. Moreso; claiming the turkification is something like getting mongolised is equal to claiming that human has only one parent.

2-Most of early turks were caucasoid male-mongoloid female couples and their descendants. This also clearly shows that movement was not always towards west and early turks were a confederation of steppe aryans and local mongoloids, a joint culture.

[Chelubey]

I know better than anyone they’re quite diverged since i can speak both Pashto and Kurdish but i also know both languages have picked up things from their neighboring languages over the past 1000 years. But yeah based on what I can see it appears like a 3000 year divergence

Also Pashto has Indo-Aryan Layer also. I see quite a few Sanskrit related words in Pashto that I don’t see in other Iranian languages. Those Sanskrit words may be Avastan

This is a Greek witness:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes
Here is a Russian link to his words and to mention of chinese sources. As I remember, the Chinese traveler who spoke about identity of Persian and Sogdian languages in 2th century BC had visited these regions.
https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/ev...anskih-yazykah
These formal arguments (several evidences of contemporaries) cannot be rejected on the basis of subjective feelings (“They could not disperse so quickly - I do not believe it”). Science knows examples of fast evolution of languages. This is, for example, Old English.

[aklifal]

2-Most of early turks were caucasoid male-mongoloid female couples and their descendants. This also clearly shows that movement was not always towards west and early turks were a confederation of steppe aryans and local mongoloids, a joint culture.

Again with this "aryan male fucking mongol woman" bullshit fantasy. Those samples you're talking about have equal amounts of mongoloid and cockasoid mtDNA.

[eatensemn]

Again with this "aryan male fucking mongol woman" bullshit fantasy. Those samples you're talking about have equal amounts of mongoloid and cockasoid mtDNA.

Not really. Go and check every research. All they have found is mostly a caucasoid male lying besides a mongoloid female (and a horse). Of course there are some mongoloid males with caucasoid females and other boring same type couples. But your "y-dna micronationalism" is just a joke and has no chance to change the history.

[Bender1999]

Also not all East Eurasian admixture in Central or West Asia came from Turkics[/B]. For example the East Eurasian admixture in 2500 year old Scythians predated the arrival of Turkics in Central Asia. There are still peoples in Central Asia that didn't adopt Turkic languages. For example in Tajikistan (Tajiks).
[/url]

That is another point: if someone claims early iranians/IE had a lot of east eurasian, than you can read galore if postings like those samples are just outliners or rare, now its normal? Sycthia were a big steppe empire, never thought about other ethnicities inside this( no i dont mean turkics but their ancestors or other steppe people. But regarding Tadjiks: The republic, Usbekistan and just some Afghanistan Tadjiks score between 15-<25% east eurasian because they are heavily intermixed with their local turkic neighbors especially Usbeks. From Buchara to Dushanbe, this area is mixed with both people, there are uzbeks with low east eurasian and tadjiks with high east eurasian admix.


R1a-z93 is a steppe haplogroup, turkics and iranics have it. Why we are discussing about the origins of scythians or turkics? Scythians were iranic, at least their upper class, turkics are turkics.