Do you consider North Africans white?

[Adamm]

In a large enough sample, there are almost no differences between Greeks no matter the region they hail from, phenotypically.

So Greeks from inland Greece (close to Albania) look exactly like Cretan Greeks per example?) I have no knowledge about Greek phenotypes, just my personal opinion.

[Zeno]

Yes I've met Greeks (very white) but also Greeks who were 'dark' like Levantine people (from Aegean Islands).

Well Levantines are also relatively lighter than the people in the majority of the area in the Middle East.

[Kamal900]

Well Levantines are also relatively lighter than the people in the majority of the area in the Middle East.

Hmm, sure, but I'd say that Turks and Caucasians are the lightest peoples in the region though.

[Rgvgjhvv]

So Greeks from inland Greece (close to Albania) look exactly like Cretan Greeks per example?) I have no knowledge about Greek phenotypes, just my personal opinion.

The differences are exaggerated on TA. But the difference in which way we lean genetically is proven and can't be debated. These are my results, in which you would never find someone from the "mainland" to have.

Spoiler!

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 33.28
2 West_Med 20.14
3 North_Atlantic 15.93
4 West_Asian 13.33
5 Baltic 12.74
6 Red_Sea 1.86
7 Oceanian 0.85
8 Amerindian 0.83
9 Siberian 0.56
10 Northeast_African 0.33
11 South_Asian 0.15

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 5.6
2 Ashkenazi 5.85
3 East_Sicilian 6.38
4 South_Italian 7.56
5 Greek_Thessaly 8.37
6 West_Sicilian 8.89
7 Italian_Abruzzo 8.89
8 Italian_Jewish 11.38
9 Algerian_Jewish 11.78
10 Sephardic_Jewish 12.25
11 Tuscan 13.73
12 Tunisian_Jewish 15.44
13 Bulgarian 16.08
14 Libyan_Jewish 16.18
15 Cyprian 16.54
16 Romanian 18.53
17 North_Italian 19.57
18 Lebanese_Muslim 20.3
19 Turkish 21.17
20 Syrian 21.89

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 76.1% Greek_Thessaly + 23.9% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.35
2 52.7% Central_Greek + 47.3% Ashkenazi @ 4.39
3 69.2% Greek_Thessaly + 30.8% Cyprian @ 4.45
4 65.6% Ashkenazi + 34.4% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.54
5 59.7% Italian_Jewish + 40.3% Bulgarian @ 4.66
6 81.6% Ashkenazi + 18.4% Bulgarian @ 4.72
7 77.5% Greek_Thessaly + 22.5% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.76
8 60.1% Greek_Thessaly + 39.9% Italian_Jewish @ 4.86
9 85.1% Ashkenazi + 14.9% Romanian @ 4.95
10 50.8% Bulgarian + 49.2% Cyprian @ 5.12
11 90.9% Ashkenazi + 9.1% Moldavian @ 5.13
12 77.5% Greek_Thessaly + 22.5% Samaritan @ 5.13
13 93% Ashkenazi + 7% Chechen @ 5.17
14 89.1% Ashkenazi + 10.9% Serbian @ 5.19
15 72.7% Ashkenazi + 27.3% Italian_Abruzzo @ 5.19
16 92% Ashkenazi + 8% Croatian @ 5.21
17 92.8% Ashkenazi + 7.2% Balkar @ 5.21
18 92.9% Ashkenazi + 7.1% Kabardin @ 5.22
19 93.5% Ashkenazi + 6.5% Tabassaran @ 5.22
20 59% Algerian_Jewish + 41% Bulgarian @ 5.22

At the same time, I rarely judge "whiteness" from genetics. Mostly it's a cultural thing I would say. So no matter where you are from in Greece we share the same culture and identity, traditions, language, history, etc. So while I have seen people find ways to devide us into categories, I think is a bit distasteful and inaccurate.

Consequently, this culture is considered "foreign" in the New World. People get excited when they meet a Greek because it's "different". "Are you Greek??" Our names reveal who we are if it's not already clear from the way we look like. There's this low-key boundary between most "whites" and Greeks. This is my personal observation anyway. In this day and age we do not receive any prejudice in a negative sense, generally speaking, but our differences from the rest of the population are still widely expressed.

It's like this weird vibe where they make it known we are different but it's a different most members of society enjoy. Like we're some weird embodiment of their entertainment.

[Adamm]

Well Levantines are also relatively lighter than the people in the majority of the area in the Middle East.

I agree but still distinct and not in my book of 'white'. Like I said it's a personal opinion and it just based upon a 'feeling' however weird it may sounds.

[Zeno]

I agree but still distinct and not in my book of 'white'. Like I said it's a personal opinion and it just based upon a 'feeling' however weird it may sounds.

Yeah, I agree, but as I said that Levantines are comparatively light to the rest of the Middle Easterners just to show how light Greeks are in comparison.

[Tauromachos]

I agree but still distinct and not in my book of 'white'. Like I said it's a personal opinion and it just based upon a 'feeling' however weird it may sounds.

What is in your book doesn't matter to everyone and has not necessarily a connection to reality

What you say about Aegean Greeks is only partialy close to truth

The truth which seems difficult to most people here to understand is that average Aegean Greeks neither look like people from the Middle East or Levant
nor like Celts and Anglo Saxons but they look like what they are Aegean Greeks.

But even most Mainland Greeks don't look Celtic or Anglo Saxon

Is it possible that an Aegean Greeks looks more similar similar to a person from the Levant than to Anglo Saxons or Celts?
Yes

Is it possible that a Mainland Greek looks more like a Northwest European than a Levantine or Maltese,Sicilians,yes thats possible
in some case.

Are these the general rule?
No


The big surprise is that most Aegean Greeks and Mainland Greeks will look more similar to one another than to any
of these foreign groups you mentioned

[Zeno]

The differences are exaggerated on TA. But the difference in which way we lean genetically is proven and can't be debated. These are my results, in which you would never find someone from the "mainland" to have.

Spoiler!

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 33.28
2 West_Med 20.14
3 North_Atlantic 15.93
4 West_Asian 13.33
5 Baltic 12.74
6 Red_Sea 1.86
7 Oceanian 0.85
8 Amerindian 0.83
9 Siberian 0.56
10 Northeast_African 0.33
11 South_Asian 0.15

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 5.6
2 Ashkenazi 5.85
3 East_Sicilian 6.38
4 South_Italian 7.56
5 Greek_Thessaly 8.37
6 West_Sicilian 8.89
7 Italian_Abruzzo 8.89
8 Italian_Jewish 11.38
9 Algerian_Jewish 11.78
10 Sephardic_Jewish 12.25
11 Tuscan 13.73
12 Tunisian_Jewish 15.44
13 Bulgarian 16.08
14 Libyan_Jewish 16.18
15 Cyprian 16.54
16 Romanian 18.53
17 North_Italian 19.57
18 Lebanese_Muslim 20.3
19 Turkish 21.17
20 Syrian 21.89

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 76.1% Greek_Thessaly + 23.9% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.35
2 52.7% Central_Greek + 47.3% Ashkenazi @ 4.39
3 69.2% Greek_Thessaly + 30.8% Cyprian @ 4.45
4 65.6% Ashkenazi + 34.4% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.54
5 59.7% Italian_Jewish + 40.3% Bulgarian @ 4.66
6 81.6% Ashkenazi + 18.4% Bulgarian @ 4.72
7 77.5% Greek_Thessaly + 22.5% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.76
8 60.1% Greek_Thessaly + 39.9% Italian_Jewish @ 4.86
9 85.1% Ashkenazi + 14.9% Romanian @ 4.95
10 50.8% Bulgarian + 49.2% Cyprian @ 5.12
11 90.9% Ashkenazi + 9.1% Moldavian @ 5.13
12 77.5% Greek_Thessaly + 22.5% Samaritan @ 5.13
13 93% Ashkenazi + 7% Chechen @ 5.17
14 89.1% Ashkenazi + 10.9% Serbian @ 5.19
15 72.7% Ashkenazi + 27.3% Italian_Abruzzo @ 5.19
16 92% Ashkenazi + 8% Croatian @ 5.21
17 92.8% Ashkenazi + 7.2% Balkar @ 5.21
18 92.9% Ashkenazi + 7.1% Kabardin @ 5.22
19 93.5% Ashkenazi + 6.5% Tabassaran @ 5.22
20 59% Algerian_Jewish + 41% Bulgarian @ 5.22

At the same time, I rarely judge "whiteness" from genetics. Mostly it's a cultural thing I would say. So no matter where you are from in Greece we share the same culture and identity, traditions, language, history, etc. So while I have seen people find ways to devide us into categories, I think is a bit distasteful and inaccurate.

Consequently, this culture is considered "foreign" in the New World. People get excited when they meet a Greek because it's "different". "Are you Greek??" Our names reveal who we are if it's not already clear from the way we look like. There's this low-key boundary between most "whites" and Greeks. This is my personal observation anyway. In this day and age we do not receive any prejudice in a negative sense, generally speaking, but our differences from the rest of the population are still widely expressed.

It's like this weird vibe where they make it known we are different but it's a different most members of society enjoy. Like we're some weird embodiment of their entertainment.

Well, in America we were considered "second class whites" at first. Meaning we weren't Anglo-Saxon, which was the basis of "whiteness". We were also conceived as different because of the culture and way of life.

[Peter Nirsch]

I think most ppl define 'white' on a personal bias. I mean Turks, Aeagan Greeks, Cypriots and Maltese are not really 'white' in my book yet they belong to Europe geographically.

geographically speaking Malta and in particular Cyprus, aren't properly Europe, in any case as European I consider Cypriots whiter than Northern Africans, at least they have similarities with Greeks and Southern Italians, so they are mostly meds.
While I don't know much about people from Malta, but according history infos they should be not much different than Sicilians with some british admixture.

[Tauromachos]

So Greeks from inland Greece (close to Albania) look exactly like Cretan Greeks per example?) I have no knowledge about Greek phenotypes, just my personal opinion.

Well Albos themselves are not necessarily Scandinavians my friend

Albos are much closer to Greeks and Italians than their Slavic neighbours for example
See where Albos plot and where Serbs or Croatians plot.
And as for swarthyness the difference between a dark type Albo and a Sicilian,Maltese or Cypriot
doesn't need to be that big.

I mean if you talk about the dark types of Greek Islanders who fit in the Levant lets be consistent
and at least in logical succession admit that there are dark type Albos who easily fit lets say in Sicily at least

But i see you stress or emphasize it in particular that the dark Greeks you met were Aegean Islanders and on the other hand when you talk about Inland Greece you stress in particular the Greeks there which are close to Albania

Its obvious quite transparent to me probably you are an Albo