How to group Italian samples in order to obtain good references?

[Deusex99]

Case in point.

[Defcon2]

Pues nosotros, con solo samples franceses e italianos, uno norteafricano y uno irlandés, nos podemos modelar igualmente sin usar ni uno solo español igualmente.

No mucho

Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 4.1606% / 0.04160650
59.4 French_Brittany
22.6 Italian_Calabria
18.0 Moroccan_North

Distance to:	Juan_scaled
0.07737078	French_Brittany
0.08649644	Italian_Calabria
0.09094098	Irish
0.17625417	Moroccan_North

[dududud]

Me:

Distance: 2.7045% / 0.02704513
48.2 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
32.0 Italian_Lombardy
19.2 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.6 Sardinian

0.02773651 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03025102 Italian_Bergamo
0.03124159 Italian_Lombardy
0.03388470 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.03440156 Italian_Veneto
0.03492617 Italian_Northeast
0.03670853 Italian_Liguria
0.04176617 Italian_Piedmont
0.05216068 Italian_Tuscany
0.06092791 Italian_Marche
0.06290244 Italian_Umbria
0.06793961 Italian_Lazio
0.07328831 Italian_Molise
0.07432129 Italian_Abruzzo
0.07583838 Sicilian_West
0.07964238 Italian_Apulia
0.08252682 Sicilian_East
0.08285842 Italian_Basilicata
0.08656186 Italian_Campania
0.09127424 Italian_Calabria
0.09656363 Sardinian
0.10667455 Italian_Jew



Mother:
Distance: 2.4592% / 0.02459161
75.6 Italian_Lombardy
24.4 Sardinian

0.03261063 Italian_Lombardy
0.03450613 Italian_Bergamo
0.04152536 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.04333024 Italian_Piedmont
0.04337742 Italian_Veneto
0.04376790 Italian_Liguria
0.04868318 Italian_Tuscany
0.05223106 Italian_Northeast
0.05415114 Italian_Marche
0.05455304 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.05514191 Italian_Lazio
0.05598304 Italian_Umbria
0.06375604 Italian_Abruzzo
0.06387026 Italian_Molise
0.06602535 Sicilian_West
0.06740685 Italian_Apulia
0.07048352 Sardinian
0.07118916 Italian_Basilicata
0.07122488 Sicilian_East
0.07356347 Italian_Campania
0.07942617 Italian_Calabria
0.09176165 Italian_Jew

[Vid Flumina]

Something like this :

North Italian : Bergamo, Veneto, Northeast
Central Italian : Tuscany, Marche
South Italian : Basilicata, Apulia, Campania

You can include a further reference for those who have more of a northern pull or minor Germanic ancestry :

Alpine Italian : Trentino-Alto Adige ALP071+ALP070, Aosta

[gixajo]

No mucho

Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 4.1606% / 0.04160650
59.4 French_Brittany
22.6 Italian_Calabria
18.0 Moroccan_North

Distance to:	Juan_scaled
0.07737078	French_Brittany
0.08649644	Italian_Calabria
0.09094098	Irish
0.17625417	Moroccan_North

[gixajo]

Case in point.

Did you check differences between the average of 10 non academic and 14 academic samples?

Is there any notable difefrence between both apart that how they were obtained?

[gixajo]

No mucho

Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 4.1606% / 0.04160650
59.4 French_Brittany
22.6 Italian_Calabria
18.0 Moroccan_North

Distance to:	Juan_scaled
0.07737078	French_Brittany
0.08649644	Italian_Calabria
0.09094098	Irish
0.17625417	Moroccan_North

Pero me refiero con todos los samples, no con uno de cada, además los más distantes.

[Deusex99]

Did you check differences between the average of 10 non academic and 14 academic samples?

Is there any notable difefrence between both apart that how they were obtained?

I have neither checked nor I know how to do.

[gixajo]

I have neither checked nor I know how to do.

If you don´t know how to do coordinate means you can run all the Campania individual samples comparing them to closer regions like Apulia or Calabria or Basilicata, and check if different obtained samples are mixed/interspersed or form a block that is clearly, too close, or too far.if non academical refrences make up a block, you could be right, if they are mainly mised in their order in the distances list (not necessarily very homogenously) you could be wrong.

It´s not a very accurate method because samples could come from a different zone in the same region that have a different admixture, but if they are clearly distants that should show it.

And if they are not academic samples but are close to academic ones, for me they are ok in the same.

Is an alternative way to check it. me for now, I will use the Campania sample as if it was legit, maybe another day I lose my time in making averages of non and academical samples you show us to see their differences.

[Aren]

Leave Italian Calabria, it's only three samples, and they are all very atypical. Italian Jews aren't ethnic Italians you can leave too.

You can do : Italy_Tuscany, Italy_Central (Lazio + Umbria + Marche), Italy_NW (Val d'Aosta), (Liguria + Piemonte, they are very similar), Italy_NE (Veneto + Friuli + Trentino + Italian North-East), Italy_Lombardy (Bergamo + Lombardy), Italy_Sicilian, Italy_SouthernMainland1 (Campania, Basilicata), Italy_SouthernMainland2 (Abruzzo, Molise, Apulia).

Why include Aostans? They are historically Arpitan speakers.
Italy_Northeast has Slovenian/Austrian-like outliers so that should be left out.