NEW paper on old Magyars!

[vbnetkhio]

one theory says that the proto-Ugric homeland (from which both Hungarians, Khanty and Mansi originate) was near modern day Novosibirsk. it's right next to the steppe, where Iranics lived, and Altai, the proto-Turkic homeland.

That could explain the loanwords, the Tengrism, and other similarities.

[blogen]

[QUOTE=itilvolga;6799293]A proof through genetics:


Because the Baskhirs are partially Magyar origin folks.

through history:
“ΓΕΩΒΙΤΖΑϹ ΠΙΣΤΟϹ ΚΡΑΛΗϹ ΤΟΥΡΚΙΑϹ"

Common mistake of the Byzantians some unknown political reason. Like the western Onugor-mistake (caused the Hungarian name).

Because the Baskhirs are partially Hungarians.

Without any evidence. The contenporary scholars spoke about shamanism in the grove and fire cult.

through culture: The Eurasian nomadic (steppe) culture. Also Gesta Hungarorum and Gesta Hunnorum et Hungarorum mention early Magyar traditions which also existed among Turkics

So, the Turks had horse and the Magyars were Turks because of this. Yeah. Sorry, but our nomadic culture was ancient West Siberian Ugric origin with Iranian cultural elements in the material culture and not Turkic type. We have now a contious archeological connection between the late ancient/early medieval Western Siberia/Southern Ural region and the conqueror culture. This is the great revolution in the Hungarian prehistory research, we find our factual route between Levedia and Hungary and the main evidence of this is the not Turkic, but Ugric cultural heritage of some archeological culture with the genetic evidences now!

Basically the whole Turkic-imagination is ended forever in Hungary. God by our Turkic friends, welcome our Iranian brothers!

[vbnetkhio]

i realized i posted only the Huns from modern day Hungary in my previous post. Here is an overview of all Hunnic samples from different locations:

E-V22	https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-V22/	382-433 calAD/BC, 1525 BP	TianShan Hun
J-Z500	https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z500/	246-401 cal AD (1709±23yBP)	Hun or Goth, Crimea
L-Y31961*	https://www.yfull.com/tree/L-Y31961*/	170-194 calAD/BC, 1700 BP	TianShan Hun
N-TAT	https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-TAT/	61-144 calAD/BC, 1831 BP	TianShan Hun
Q-F1096	https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-F1096/	IV-V c. AD	Hun-Sarmatian, Russia, Barabinsk
Q-L330	https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L330/	259-281 calAD/BC, 1613 BP	TianShan Hun
Q-L330	https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L330/	255-301 calAD/BC, 1634 BP	TianShan Hun
Q-L713	https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L713/	385-435 calAD/BC, 1514 BP	TianShan Hun
Q-L715	https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L715/	134-219 calAD/BC, 1769 BP	TianShan Hun
Q-L715	https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L715/	265-271 calAD/BC, 1595 BP	TianShan Hun
Q-M25	https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-M25/	V. century	Hungary Hun
Q-YP4500*	https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-YP4500*/	252-304 calAD/BC, 1634 BP	TianShan Hun
Q-YP771	https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-YP771/	-357--342 calAD/BC, 2233 BP	Hun-Sarmatian, Kazakhstan, Pavlodar
R-F1019*	https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-F1019*/	403-434 calAD/BC, 1482 BP	TianShan Hun
R-S21872*	https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-S21872*/	255-300 calAD/BC, 1629 BP	TianShan Hun
R-U106	https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-U106/	V. century	Hungary Hun
R-Y39884*	https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y39884*/	349-368 calAD/BC, 1542 BP	Hun-Sarmatian, Kazakhstan, Kostanay
R-Y81807	https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y81807/	177-190 calAD/BC, 1684 BP	TianShan Hun
R-YP1455*	https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP1455*/	214-261 calAD/BC, 1701 BP	TianShan Hun
R-YP1456	https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP1456/	397-570 calAD/BC, 1466 BP	TianShan Hun
R-Z2124	https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z2124/	V. century	Hungary Hun

[Turul Karom]

Hungarian Conquerors are not original Magyars. They appeared thousands of years later after absorbing different steppe folk.

???

Is this another round about talking about the proto-proto-proto-proto-Hungarians? As I've said, at what point are we just back in Africa? You'll need to elaborate more than just one sentence and no massive wall of copy-paste text to actually have a conversation about your real thoughts.

I also remember your actual opinions:

[blogen]

one theory says that the proto-Ugric homeland (from which both Hungarians, Khanty and Mansi originate) was near modern day Novosibirsk. it's right next to the steppe, where Iranics lived, and Altai, the proto-Turkic homeland.

That could explain the loanwords, the Tengrism, and other similarities.

Presumably the Cherkaskul culture was the proto-Magyars and the Sargat cultural horizont were the ancient Magyars (the western part were the direct origin of our ancestors):

[Jana]

...

What is wrong with you exactly? How far will you go to twist known facts also written here, that Magyars come from Urals and speak Ugric language?
You claim they are originally Turks with Ugric substratum, it's exact opposite.

No serious paper nor researcher claim they started as Turks. It's a fantasy.
You didn't answer my post because you have no answer to offer. You don't need to offer Africa argument, it's silly. It's known where Hungarians started, and it is in Urals. Not Altai, sorry.

You are fanatical and dogmatic, and also funny. Nothing wrong to enjoy Turkic culture and heritage, but claiming you are Turkic and Hungarians started as Turkic...no comment.
It's black Egyptians level.

Enjoy your 1% Turkic DNA dear.

[Turul Karom]

Because the Baskhirs are partially Magyar origin folks.

....because Baskhirs and Hungarians have Turkic in their roots.

Common mistake of the Byzantians some unknown political reason. Like the western Onugor-mistake (caused the Hungarian name).

I can't believe this, because there is literally no evidence to assume it was a mistake. As in, nothing. They were making a crown for the leadership of a large nation, hundreds of years after the dissolution of the Khazar Empire, and they just call them the wrong ethnicity? "Oops, oh well, just give it to them anyway." Does that even sound plausible? The crown was a diplomatic act to the Hungarians; why risk infuriating them?

Without any evidence. The contenporary scholars spoke about shamanism in the grove and fire cult.

András Róna-Tas says that it is without a doubt that the religion of the steppe Hungarians was Tengrism. However, Hungarian fire worship was also recorded by the Arabs.

So, the Turks had horse and the Magyars were Turks because of this. Yeah. Sorry, but our nomadic culture was ancient West Siberian Ugric origin with Iranian cultural elements in the material culture and not Turkic type. We have now a contious archeological connection between the late ancient/early medieval Western Siberia/Southern Ural region and the conqueror culture.

Did you even read the parts of the study I posted that talked directly about Turkic genetics and similarities? It was taken right from the OP.

This is the great revolution in the Hungarian prehistory research, we find our factual route between Levedia and Hungary and the main evidence of this is the not Turkic, but Ugric cultural heritage of some archeological culture with the genetic evidences now!

Basically the whole Turkic-imagination is ended forever in Hungary. God by our Turkic friends, welcome our Iranian brothers!

[vbnetkhio]

Presumably the Cherkaskul culture was the proto-Magyars and the Sargat cultural horizont were the ancient Magyars (the western part were the direct origin of our ancestors):

this one is apparently proto-Ugric according to Russian scholars:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A...83%D1%80%D0%B0

there is no info in English about it. or it has a different name?

[Kaspias]

i realized i posted only the Huns from modern day Hungary in my previous post. Here is an overview of all Hunnic samples from different locations:

E-V22	https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-V22/	382-433 calAD/BC, 1525 BP	TianShan Hun
J-Z500	https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z500/	246-401 cal AD (1709±23yBP)	Hun or Goth, Crimea
L-Y31961*	https://www.yfull.com/tree/L-Y31961*/	170-194 calAD/BC, 1700 BP	TianShan Hun
N-TAT	https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-TAT/	61-144 calAD/BC, 1831 BP	TianShan Hun
Q-F1096	https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-F1096/	IV-V c. AD	Hun-Sarmatian, Russia, Barabinsk
Q-L330	https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L330/	259-281 calAD/BC, 1613 BP	TianShan Hun
Q-L330	https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L330/	255-301 calAD/BC, 1634 BP	TianShan Hun
Q-L713	https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L713/	385-435 calAD/BC, 1514 BP	TianShan Hun
Q-L715	https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L715/	134-219 calAD/BC, 1769 BP	TianShan Hun
Q-L715	https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L715/	265-271 calAD/BC, 1595 BP	TianShan Hun
Q-M25	https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-M25/	V. century	Hungary Hun
Q-YP4500*	https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-YP4500*/	252-304 calAD/BC, 1634 BP	TianShan Hun
Q-YP771	https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-YP771/	-357--342 calAD/BC, 2233 BP	Hun-Sarmatian, Kazakhstan, Pavlodar
R-F1019*	https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-F1019*/	403-434 calAD/BC, 1482 BP	TianShan Hun
R-S21872*	https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-S21872*/	255-300 calAD/BC, 1629 BP	TianShan Hun
R-U106	https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-U106/	V. century	Hungary Hun
R-Y39884*	https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y39884*/	349-368 calAD/BC, 1542 BP	Hun-Sarmatian, Kazakhstan, Kostanay
R-Y81807	https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y81807/	177-190 calAD/BC, 1684 BP	TianShan Hun
R-YP1455*	https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP1455*/	214-261 calAD/BC, 1701 BP	TianShan Hun
R-YP1456	https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP1456/	397-570 calAD/BC, 1466 BP	TianShan Hun
R-Z2124	https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z2124/	V. century	Hungary Hun

Also Xiongnu:

EG25A C-M217 https://www.yfull.com/tree/C-M217/ Ricaut2010 300 BC-200 AD Xiongnu Xiongnu Egyin Gol Valley Mongolia
MNX2 C-M217 https://www.yfull.com/tree/C-M217/ Kim2010 100BC-100 AD Xiongnu Xiongnu Duurlig Nars Mongolia
JAG001 C-L1373 https://www.yfull.com/tree/C-L1373/ Jeong2020 200-91 BCE Xiongnu Early Xiongnu Mongolia_Early Xiongnu Jargalantyn Am (Jargalantyn Khondii), Khentii Mongolia
CHN010 C-F1756 https://www.yfull.com/tree/C-F1756/ Jeong2020 92 BC-50 CE Xiongnu Late Xiongnu Mongolia_Late Xiongnu Chandman Mountain, Uvs Mongolia
KHO006 C-F1756 https://www.yfull.com/tree/C-F1756/ Jeong2020 Xiongnu Late Xiongnu Mongolia_Late Xiongnu Khoit Tsenkher (Tarvagatain Am), Khovd Mongolia
TEV003 C-F1756 https://www.yfull.com/tree/C-F1756/ Jeong2020 Xiongnu Late Xiongnu Mongolia_Late Xiongnu Tevsh Mountain, Uvurkhangai Mongolia
BRL003 C-F1756 https://www.yfull.com/tree/C-F1756/ Jeong2020 2 BCE-70 CE Xiongnu Late Xiongnu Mongolia_Late Xiongnu Buural Uul, Selenge Mongolia
I6228 C-F3830 https://www.yfull.com/tree/C-F3830/ Wang2020 3-120 calCE (1950±20 BP, PSUAMS-7395) Mongolia_EIA Xiongnu Mongolia_EIA_7_Xiongnu Uvs aimag, Ulaangom sum, Chandman Uul, Ulaangom cemetery Grave #44 Mongolia
TUH001 C-M48 https://www.yfull.com/tree/C-M48/ Jeong2020 Xiongnu Late Xiongnu Mongolia_Late Xiongnu Tamiryn Ulaan Khoshuu (Burkhan Tolgoi), Arkhangai Mongolia
KHO007 CT https://www.yfull.com/tree/CT/ Jeong2020 22-120 CE Xiongnu Late Xiongnu Mongolia_Late Xiongnu Khoit Tsenkher (Tarvagatain Am), Khovd Mongolia
BUR002 E-V22 https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-V22/ Jeong2020 Xiongnu Late Xiongnu Mongolia_Late Xiongnu Tamiryn Ulaan Khoshuu (Burkhan Tolgoi), Arkhangai Mongolia
UGU006 J1 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J1/ Jeong2020 Xiongnu Late Xiongnu Mongolia_Late Xiongnu Uguumur Uul, Selenge Mongolia
BRU001 J-P58 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-P58/ Jeong2020 Xiongnu Late Xiongnu Mongolia_Late Xiongnu Baruun Khovdiin Am, Sukhbaatar Mongolia
TUH002 J-M410 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-M410/ Jeong2020 Xiongnu Late Xiongnu Mongolia_Late Xiongnu Tamiryn Ulaan Khoshuu (Burkhan Tolgoi), Arkhangai Mongolia
SKT012 J-L25 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-L25/ Jeong2020 Xiongnu Early Xiongnu Mongolia_Early Xiongnu Salkhityn Am, Khuvsgul Mongolia
NAI001 J-L25 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-L25/ Jeong2020 Xiongnu Late Xiongnu Mongolia_Late Xiongnu Naimaa Tolgoi, Arkhangai Mongolia
YUR001 N-Z4762 https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-Z4762/ Jeong2020 89 BC-51 CE Xiongnu Late Xiongnu Mongolia_Late Xiongnu Yuroo II, Selenge Mongolia
Xiongnu1 N-TAT https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-TAT/ Keyser2004 300 BC-200 AD Xiongnu Xiongnu Egyin Gol Valley Mongolia
Xiongnu2 N-TAT https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-TAT/ Keyser2004 300 BC-200 AD Xiongnu Xiongnu Egyin Gol Valley Mongolia
EG19 N-TAT https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-TAT/ Petkovski2006 300 BC-200 AD Xiongnu Xiongnu Egyin Gol Valley Mongolia
IMA005 N-M2126 https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-M2126/ Jeong2020 Xiongnu Late Xiongnu Mongolia_Late Xiongnu Il'movaya Pad, Buryatia, Russia Mongolia
SON001 NO https://www.yfull.com/tree/NO/ Jeong2020 Xiongnu Late Xiongnu Mongolia_Late Xiongnu Songino Khairkhan, Tuv Mongolia
TUK002 O-F4062 https://www.yfull.com/tree/O-F4062/ Jeong2020 Xiongnu Late Xiongnu Mongolia_Late Xiongnu Tamiryn Ulaan Khoshuu (Burkhan Tolgoi), Arkhangai Mongolia
DA43.SG O-FGC54474* https://www.yfull.com/tree/O-FGC54474*/ DamgaardNature2018 NA-NA calAD/BC, 1994 BP Xiongnu XiongNu XiongNu Siberia, Tungus & Eastern Steppe
EME003 O-CTS2643 https://www.yfull.com/tree/O-CTS2643/ Jeong2020 Xiongnu Late Xiongnu Mongolia_Late Xiongnu Emeel Tolgoi, Arkhangai Mongolia
DA45.SG O-MF76414 https://www.yfull.com/tree/O-MF76414/ DamgaardNature2018 -156--134 calAD/BC, 1994 BP Xiongnu XiongNu XiongNu Siberia, Tungus & Eastern Steppe
EG112 Q https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q/ Petkovski2006 300 BC-200 AD Xiongnu Xiongnu Egyin Gol Valley Mongolia
IMA006 Q-M120 https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-M120/ Jeong2020 Xiongnu Late Xiongnu Mongolia_Late Xiongnu Il'movaya Pad, Buryatia, Russia Mongolia
IMA004 Q-L53 https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L53/ Jeong2020 Xiongnu Late Xiongnu Mongolia_Late Xiongnu Il'movaya Pad, Buryatia, Russia Mongolia
SKT007 Q-L330 https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L330/ Jeong2020 Xiongnu Early Xiongnu Mongolia_Early Xiongnu Salkhityn Am, Khuvsgul Mongolia
SKT008 Q-L330 https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L330/ Jeong2020 Xiongnu Early Xiongnu Mongolia_Early Xiongnu Salkhityn Am, Khuvsgul Mongolia
BTO001 Q-L330 https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L330/ Jeong2020 Xiongnu Late Xiongnu Mongolia_Late Xiongnu Burkhan Tolgoi, Bulgan Mongolia
DEL001 Q-L329 https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L329/ Jeong2020 106 BCE-5 CE Xiongnu Late Xiongnu Mongolia_Late Xiongnu Delgerkhaan Uul, Sukhbaatar Mongolia
SKT006 R1 https://www.yfull.com/tree/R1/ Jeong2020 168-52 BCE Xiongnu Early Xiongnu Mongolia_Early Xiongnu Salkhityn Am, Khuvsgul Mongolia
IMA003 R-M459 https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-M459/ Jeong2020 Xiongnu Late Xiongnu Mongolia_Late Xiongnu Il'movaya Pad, Buryatia, Russia Mongolia
MNX3 R-M198 https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-M198/ Kim2010 300-100 BC Xiongnu Xiongnu Duurlig Nars Mongolia
SKT009 R-Z645 https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z645/ Jeong2020 Xiongnu Early Xiongnu Mongolia_Early Xiongnu Salkhityn Am, Khuvsgul Mongolia
BUR003 R-Z645 https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z645/ Jeong2020 Xiongnu Late Xiongnu Mongolia_Late Xiongnu Tamiryn Ulaan Khoshuu (Burkhan Tolgoi), Arkhangai Mongolia
NAI002 R-Z283 https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z283/ Jeong2020 Xiongnu Late Xiongnu Mongolia_Late Xiongnu Naimaa Tolgoi, Arkhangai Mongolia
UGU010 R-Z2123 https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z2123/ Jeong2020 42 BCE-30 CE Xiongnu Late Xiongnu Mongolia_Late Xiongnu Uguumur Uul, Selenge Mongolia
UGU005 R-Z2123 https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z2123/ Jeong2020 4-75 CE Xiongnu Late Xiongnu Mongolia_Late Xiongnu Uguumur Uul, Selenge Mongolia
SKT002 R1b https://www.yfull.com/tree/R1b/ Jeong2020 204-96 BCE Xiongnu Early Xiongnu Mongolia_Early Xiongnu Salkhityn Am, Khuvsgul Mongolia
SKT005 R1b https://www.yfull.com/tree/R1b/ Jeong2020 Xiongnu Early Xiongnu Mongolia_Early Xiongnu Salkhityn Am, Khuvsgul Mongolia
DA39.SG R-PH155 https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-PH155/ DamgaardNature2018 -49-53 calAD/BC, 1960 BP Xiongnu XiongNu XiongNu Siberia, Tungus & Eastern Steppe
DA41.SG R-PH200 https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-PH200/ DamgaardNature2018 -347--319 calAD/BC, 2179 BP Xiongnu XiongNu West XiongNu_WE Siberia, Tungus & Eastern Steppe

[vbnetkhio]

Also Xiongnu:

Now we just need the Y-DNA of Bulgars, Cumans, and Pechenegs to complete the puzzle.