Comparing similar models -G25 and K13

[gixajo]

Let´s to try to compare both ways. (try because references and software are not exactly the sames)

We can do this with other models we post, to compare results and see differences.

G25 SCALED

Germanic:Ger+Dutch,0.12850750,0.13434200,0.05953750,0.04242800,0.04023600,0.01613500,0.00530550,0.00693350,0.00355100,0.00110350,-0.00542900,0.00348000,-0.00703950,-0.00569200,0.01297850,0.00431800,-0.00574350,0.00146500,0.00381850,0.00226650,0.00391550,0.00243600,0.00017000,0.01182950,-0.00010750
Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad,0.133742,0.12948,0.073727,0.057494,0.0373915,0.029144,0.0094,0.007269,0.004295,-0.018224,-0.001543,-0.006369,0.0102575,0.017753,-0.0138435,0.0007295,0.0002605,0.0034205,0.0055305,0.001313,0,-0.002782,0.010846,-0.0069285,0.001736
North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria,0.117111,0.147477,0.007794,-0.027994,0.020038,-0.009172,-0.000862,-0.00241,0.005227,0.025918,-0.000379,0.005395,-0.010158,-0.005321,-0.002488,0.000575,0.006954,0.000591,0.001061,-0.002334,-0.003411,0.000756,0.000315,0.003039,-0.001091
South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo,0.112685,0.148801,-0.000675,-0.034765,0.016116,-0.01255,0.000779,-0.002283,0.003789,0.020813,0.000513,0.003668,-0.005633,-0.003904,-0.00615,-0.001466,0.00186,0.000267,0.003361,-0.003693,-0.003809,0.001334,0.000889,0.001706,-0.000964
Altaic:Altaian,0.057367,-0.28841,0.067052,-0.007881,-0.061304,-0.023873,0.011845,0.015738,0.001677,0.001968,-0.018642,-0.002518,0.000119,-0.011615,-0.00247,0.001989,-0.002764,-0.001318,0.011087,0.015257,-0.024157,0.001607,-0.014223,-0.00106,-0.002179

K13

North_PaleoBalk,26.31,11.19,23.14,10.18,24.32,3.81,0.08,0.35,0.07,0.27,0.14,0.14,0
Germanic,43.14,22.44,14.78,6.85,8.54,0.86,0.94,0.13,0.40,0.60,0.64,0.47,0.22
Slavic,30.33,47.37,11.04,4.58,2.63,0.68,0.49,0.00,1.56,0.89,0.00,0.42,0.00
Altaic,4.25,9.58,0.55,8.32,0.14,0.23,2.94,21.39,48.62,3.21,0.51,0.01,0.25
South_PaleoBalk,20.82,8.67,21.33,13.7,29.21,4.61,0.18,0.28,0.28,0.22,0.33,0.33,0.04

Election of G25 references is based in the k13 original model refrences:

Spoiler!

References from Eurogenes K13 ancient, Vahaduo.

Distance to: Slavic
0.00000000 AV2_Hungary_Szolad_540_640_AD_540_640_AD_

Distance to: North_PaleoBalk
2.66443240 scy300_Moldova_Scythian.SG_2253_ybp

Distance to: Germanic
2.57297493 I4946_Czech_Bell_Beaker_4172_ybp

Distance to: Altaic
8.16552509 DA116_Kyrgyzstan_Nomad_Med.SG_796_ybp

Distance to: South_PaleoBalk
2.99317557 R973_Lazio_Rome_Renaissance_Italy

References from Eurogenes K13 (Modern) updated ,Vahaduo:

Distance to: South_PaleoBalk
0.00000000 Abruzzo

Distance to: North_PaleoBalk
0.00000000 Romagna

Distance to: Altaic
0.00000000 Altaian

Distance to: Germanic
0.00000000 West_German

Distance to: Slavic
2.86347691 Polish

[gixajo]

K13

Target: gixajo
Distance: 17.5863% / 17.58626325
65.6 Germanic
34.4 North_PaleoBalk

G25

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 4.3409% / 0.04340919
51.8 North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria
48.2 Germanic:Ger+Dutch
0.0 Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad
0.0 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo
0.0 Altaic:Altaian

[gixajo]

i have named wrongly North and South Balkan references , sorry. It´s already corrected.

[Kyp]

My Mother

G25:
Target: MotherKyp
Distance: 1.3504% / 0.01350436
74.4 Germanic
16.6 Slavic
9.0 North_Paleo_Balkan

k13:
Target: MotherKyp(SouthGerman)
Distance: 3.1678% / 3.16779749
82.4 Germanic
17.6 Slavic



Myself:

G25:
Target: Kyp_scaled
Distance: 2.6547% / 0.02654665
53.4 Azeri_Iran
28.8 Germanic
16.4 Slavic
1.4 South_Paleo_Balkan

k13:
Target: Kyp(Azeri+German)
Distance: 2.9194% / 2.91935299
43.4 Azeri
36.0 Germanic
13.4 Slavic
7.2 South_PaleoBalk



You guys think the Slavic is legit? (I guess to a certain extent it's normal in Germany but it's consistent in these calculators, also with Myheritage)

[gixajo]

My Mother





You guys think the Slavic is legit? (I guess to a certain extent it's normal in Germany but it's consistent in these calculators, also with Myheritage)

This ancient reference for Slavic is used commonly as very good one. Maybe some member more specialized in Eastern Europe can say it better than me.

In individual averages they are Germans that score much more Slavic than your mother, so I don´t know if it´s an accurate reference for Slavic, but Germans score in Slavic quite ussually as far as I know, and those from East Germany more than West Germans.

If you use as a German reference the original German reference from datasheet , probably your mother will score less Slavic, and if you use the Eastern German reference, even less.

All depends in references used, it´s the eternal war here among those who post models and their detractors.

The only undubious reference here is Altaic one (modern) and German one(modern too), ancient Slavic too but from ancient populations datasheet, and both paleo Balkans references, are quite debatable IMO.

[Kyp]

This ancient reference for Slavic is used commonly as very good one. Maybe some member more specialized in Eastern Europe can say it better than me.

In individual averages they are Germans that score much more Slavic than your mother, so I don´t know if it´s an accurate reference for Slavic, but Germans score in Slavic quite ussually as far as I know, and those from East Germany more than West Germans.

If you use as a German reference the original German reference from datasheet , probably your mother will score less Slavic, and if you use the Eastern German reference, even less.

All depends in references used, it´s the eternal war here among those who post models and their detractors.

The only undubious reference here is Altaic one (modern) and German one(modern too), ancient Slavic too but from ancient populations datasheet, and both paleo Balkans references, are quite debatable IMO.

I'm inclined to believe it's true as my mother scores 32.9% East European (East European + some Balkan) on MH. But I don't know how ancient it is. There also has been medieval Slavic settlement in the nearby regions to the east. So it could be possible but I don't see a way to confirm such a thing.

[gixajo]

I'm inclined to believe it's true as my mother scores 32.9% East European (East European + some Balkan) on MH. But I don't know how ancient it is. There also has been medieval Slavic settlement in the nearby regions to the east. So it could be possible but I don't see a way to confirm such a thing.

You mother is undoubtely German, simply Germans are not isolated population, so it´s normal to score something related with neighbouring populations. Same for anybody in Europe, the "purest" individuals are hard to find in any ethnicity, and these "purest" individuals would constitute a minimum percentage of any ethnic group.

On the other hand, each ethnic estimate will give you a different percentage.My mother is Southern Basque, and in G25 she scores between 47% and 70% basque, depending on references. In MyHeritage is 100% Iberian, but the same raw data from MH exported to other companies, gave her quite less.

[Kyp]

You mother is undoubtely German, simply Germans are not isolated population, so it´s normal to score something related with neighbouring populations. Same for anybody in Europe, the "purest" individuals are hard to find in any ethnicity, and these "purest" individuals would constitute a minimum percentage of any ethnic group.

On the other hand, each ethnic estimate will give you a different percentage.My mother is Southern Basque, and in G25 she scores between 47% and 70% basque, depending on references. In MyHeritage is 100% Iberian, but the same raw data from MH exported to other companies, gave her quite less.

Yes no doubt about her being 100% German (around 95% actually because of distant French ancestry) same as Eastern Germans being 100% German, but I'm still interested in the history/ethnogenesis of the people. You can look this up (if you're interested) for example we are from close to the West: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavaria_Slavica/wiki/Bavaria_Slavica[/URL]
So there is a small continuum from Eastern Germany to the most northern parts of modern Bavaria in terms of Slavic ancestry possible.

[gixajo]

Sorry Universe, a link of your K13 post:

http://https://www.theapricity.com/f...13#post6838613

[Defcon2]

K13

Target: Juan
Distance: 18.2988% / 18.29884583
52.0 North_PaleoBalk
48.0 Germanic

G25

Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 5.3699% / 0.05369942
63.6 North_Paleo_Balkan
35.8 Germanic
0.6 Altaic