Dodecad k12b West, Central & South Asian results Vol. 2

[Leto]

What about the Meskhetians? See the first page of the thread. User Fiko0 is a Meskhetian from NE Turkey and he is virtually zero EE too.

[Bender1999]

Yes, i have some pontic greek ancestors too that i didnt know till i have checked that government site and my maternal side still identfy as Turkish despite having some pontic greek ancestry and dna results. That things didnt change anything. And people here call eastern blacksea people as laz too but i thing they dont say it seriously, more like a joking way. It's just interesting to me how can a population change their indentity, language, religion without intermarrying back in the old days. Kurds still identify as kurds and laz people still identify as laz and most of them can still talk their language but trabzon turks' case is really interesting to me.

No here they are serious about that. The people in Trabzon, regardless of beeing Laz, Turk or Pontic Greek, are very homogeneous genetically. In western parts are some villages with up to 8% mongoloid but generally they are pure Caucasians.

[RatCat]

No here they are serious about that. The people in Trabzon, regardless of beeing Laz, Turk or Pontic Greek, are very homogeneous genetically. In western parts are some villages with up to 8% mongoloid but generally they are pure Caucasians.

Yes trabzon is very homogenous genetically but if you look at populations there are hemsheni, laz, pontic greeks, turks, meskhetians etc. All of them are genetically native trabzonians but they identify as different groups. That's interesting.

[Bender1999]

What about the Meskhetians? See the first page of the thread. User Fiko0 is a Meskhetian from NE Turkey and he is virtually zero EE too.

To be honest, i don’t know much about them just that they were deported to central asia. Maybe during Ottoman/Safevid empire a group of Caucasians became Turkish. The question is why justva specific group and not hole caucasus. At least, there are not Ahiska(turkish for meskhetian) Turks which were mentioned in Ottoman archives.

[RatCat]

What about the Meskhetians? See the first page of the thread. User Fiko0 is a Meskhetian from NE Turkey and he is virtually zero EE too.

they are interesting too. I think they are native to georgia.

[Bender1999]

Yes trabzon is very homogenous genetically but if you look at populations there are hemsheni, laz, pontic greeks, turks, meskhetians etc. All of them are genetically native trabzonians but they identify as different groups. That's interesting.

I think because there werent much migration. Look to Turks, that is very opposite, they are heterogenous. I think that is probably the main reason for their homogenous genetics of NE-Turkey. Lets forget the cities with high muhacir population, fir example when i research about the origin of the place names in Turkey, they mention different tribes of different origins. Some migrated from east to west, some intermarried with other ethnicities etc. I think this movements and mobility lacks in Trabzon.

[RatCat]

I think because there werent much migration. Look to Turks, that is very opposite, they are heterogenous. I think that is probably the main reason for their homogenous genetics of NE-Turkey. Lets forget the cities with high muhacir population, fir example when i research about the origin of the place names in Turkey, they mention different tribes of different origins. Some migrated from east to west, some intermarried with other ethnicities etc. I think this movements and mobility lacks in Trabzon.

Yes its probably about lack of migrations to that region. Trabzon is the last place that conquered by turkic groups (ottomans, karaman, aq qoyunlu etc.)


This is the map of anatolia at 1453 and trabzon got conquered at 1461. I think at that time whole turkic migration to anatolia was over and after 1461 they didnt migrate to trabzon. But how trabzon turks got assimilated and learned the language. Like i said all of my maternal side since 1815 are from the same village, who came to that village and teach them that language, religion etc. I think sardinians are like that too, they dont have indo-european admixture but they speak an indo european language.

[Leto]

I think sardinians are like that too, they dont have indo-european admixture but they speak an indo european language.

Yeah, but their cultural assimilation started over 2,000 years ago. Sardinian, albeit a Romance language, is drastically different from Italian and its dialects.

[Bender1999]

Yes its probably about lack of migrations to that region. Trabzon is the last place that conquered by turkic groups (ottomans, karaman, aq qoyunlu etc.)


This is the map of anatolia at 1453 and trabzon got conquered at 1461. I think at that time whole turkic migration to anatolia was over and after 1461 they didnt migrate to trabzon. But how trabzon turks got assimilated and learned the language. Like i said all of my maternal side since 1815 are from the same village, who came to that village and teach them that language, religion etc. I think sardinians are like that too, they dont have indo-european admixture but they speak an indo european language.

Turkic migration was not over, until to 19th century Turkmen tribes migrated, just an example: last eastern anatolian turkmens(nomads) migrated from Erzurum(sorry, nit Erzincan)to Kirikkale. At this time, the overwhelming majority of nomads were settled. We know that many eastern anatolian tribes fled between 15-17 th century to Iran, and we know there are tribes who came in 18th century to Turkey from Iran. Still in their folk poetry they say „we are descending from Nader Shah“.

[Kyp]

Turkic migration was not over, until to 19th century Turkmen tribes migrated, just an example: last eastern anatolian turkmens(nomads) migrated from Erzurum(sorry, nit Erzincan)to Kirikkale. At this time, the overwhelming majority of nomads were settled. We know that many eastern anatolian tribes fled between 15-17 th century to Iran, and we know there are tribes who came in 18th century to Turkey from Iran. Still in their folk poetry they say „we are descending from Nader Shah“.

Hey Bender, how common are settlements from Iran (Khorasan, Güney Azerbaycan) in Central Anatolia. I've now came across multiple random villages where it's said they came around 18th century from Iran.

I also know from some Azerbaijani tribes that got back into Anatolia.