Gedmatch calculators on Vahaduo

[Lucas]

Lucas, could you add all these to k13 ancient?

scy192_Moldova_Scythian.SG_1650_ybp,19.33,15.87,24.64,13.25,21.59,2.68,0.53,0,0.91,0.42,0.76,0,0.01
scy197_Moldova_Scythian.SG_1650_ybp,21.77,15.56,27.21,8.22,20.8,4.53,0,0,1.91,0,0,0,0
scy305_Moldova_Scythian.SG_2254_ybp,27.8,11.06,20.79,10.94,21.92,0,3.07,0,1.66,1.84,0.29,0.65,0
scy300_Moldova_Scythian.SG_2253_ybp,26.39,9.87,23.35,10.37,23.25,3.55,0,1.09,0,2.13,0,0,0
scy311_Moldova_Scythian.SG_2247_ybp,29.28,14.3,13.36,17.27,14.15,1.64,3.11,3.04,1.27,2.34,0.24,0,0
scy301_Moldova_Scythian.SG_2248_ybp,22.72,23.94,11.96,18.97,11.8,0,1.4,1.01,4.38,3.04,0,0,0.77
scy303_Moldova_Scythian_o2.SG_2242_ybp,45.53,29.8,10.39,4.74,4.1,0,3.03,0,0,1.01,1.31,0.09,0

ScythianMoldova_SCY311_Moldova_389-204_BC,38.58,18.93,18.02,11.92,11.13,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1.43
ScythianMoldova_SCY300_Moldova_397-209_BC,34.52,9.33,30.97,6.42,18.53,0.22,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
ScythianMoldova_SCY197_Moldova_288502632_BC,33.89,13.8,29,2.16,20.45,0.7,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
scy192_scythian_2863_2503bce_,28,13.64,31.82,6.93,19.38,0.22,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
scy301_scythian_Moldova_390_205bce_,34.99,26.02,14.27,15.53,8.64,0,0,0,0,0.55,0,0,0
scy303_scythian_Moldova_380_203bce_,55.23,31.22,11.90,1.65,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00

the SG version is very different from the normal one. i think people shuld be able to compare to both.

Added

[Ion Basescul]

Better?

Worse and I don't think that there should be duplicate samples.

Distance to:	scy192_Moldova_Scythian.SG_1650_ybp
3.88591045	Albanian_central_Albania
3.90220451	Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
3.92116054	Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-East
4.96767551	Albanian_Albania
4.97490703	Vlach_Central-Macedonia
5.12555363	Albanian
5.26485517	Albanian_Kosovo
5.44478650	Albanian_north_Albania
5.51688206	Kosovo_Albanian
5.74342232	Greek_Peloponnese
5.96184535	Greek_Thessaly
6.19620852	Albanian_Montenegro
6.32176399	Greek_Western-Thrace
6.83904233	Albanian_south_Albania
7.13965685	Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-Central
7.35713939	Vlach_North-Macedonia
7.42800108	Greek_Central-Macedonia
7.46892228	Greek_Thessaloniki
7.49430450	Albanian_Macedonia
7.66047431	GR_Macedonia
7.76470379	GR_Peloponese
7.82357801	Bulgarian_Thrace
7.98338274	Greek_Western-Macedonia
8.26897817	Greek_Eastern-Thrace
8.27527643	Turk_Kazanlik
8.58604100	Macedonian_Southwest
8.71784951	Turk_Alexandroupoli
8.74038901	Macedonian_Central
8.83487974	Macedonian_Southeast
8.93161240	Bulgarian_Plovdiv
8.95010614	Vlach_North-Macedonia-Highlander
9.32471447	Turk_Kavala
9.47877102	Greek_Northern-Thrace
9.48419738	Turk_Thessaloniki
9.49726178	North_Macedonian
9.56588208	Macedonian_North
9.61689659	Romagna
9.75526012	Bulgarian_North-Rhodope
9.80200490	Lazio
9.88575743	Gagauz
10.09244767	Marche
10.15612623	Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
10.29642171	Umbria
10.44858842	Macedonian_East
10.53628967	Pomak_Nevrokopi
10.56091379	Macedonian_Greece
10.67556088	Turk_Crete
10.68061328	Bulgarian_Central
10.77039461	Tuscany
10.78253681	Central_Greek

Distance to:	scy192_scythian_2863_2503bce_
7.61036793	Lombardy
8.21921529	FrenchCorsica
8.51479301	Liguria
8.54334244	Emilia
8.61624048	Tuscany
9.29774704	Piedmont
9.51386882	Veneto
11.22844602	Tuscan
11.44571972	Trentino
11.50222152	Romagna
11.89408677	Swiss-Italian2
12.29107400	Lazio
12.29144825	Umbria
12.49542716	FRA_Provence
12.78197559	Friuli-VG
13.06155044	Marche
13.11122039	Swiss_Italian
13.40427171	Albanian_north_Albania
13.68164829	Albanian_Kosovo
14.02238567	Greek_Western-Thrace
14.25308388	Spanish_Andalucia
14.44901727	Vlach_Central-Macedonia
14.49124908	Albanian
14.53129726	Spanish_Extremadura
14.61428753	Albanian_Albania
14.77329381	Kosovo_Albanian
14.90267761	Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
14.99093059	Portuguese
15.20281882	Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-East
15.23987533	Spanish_Valencia
15.26687918	Albanian_Macedonia
15.45210342	Albanian_south_Albania
15.46444632	Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-Central
15.49442803	Albanian_central_Albania
15.74940316	Spanish_Galicia
15.79520497	Vlach_North-Macedonia
15.81090763	Greek_Central-Macedonia
15.99107876	Spanish_Murcia
15.99292344	Albanian_Montenegro
16.09229629	Macedonian_East
16.15249613	North_Macedonian
16.48804112	Bulgarian_Plovdiv
16.54279602	Bulgarian_Central
16.55313565	AostaValley
16.58655178	Spanish_Cataluna
16.62012936	Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
16.92351914	Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
16.95316490	Greek_Thessaly
17.16584399	Bulgarian_Serres
17.17128417	West_Sicilian

Run with Global 25 coordinates for comparison

Distance to:	Scythian_MDA:scy192
0.03169278	Greek_Thessaly
0.03236811	Italian_Umbria
0.03310296	Albanian
0.03330800	Greek_Peloponnese
0.03331785	Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.03365049	Italian_Tuscany
0.03527896	Italian_Marche
0.03528722	Italian_Piedmont
0.03541678	Italian_Molise
0.03715650	Swiss_Italian
0.03732629	Greek_Izmir
0.03799659	Italian_Abruzzo
0.03809924	Italian_Lazio
0.04098982	French_Corsica
0.04279906	Italian_Apulia
0.04342582	Italian_Basilicata
0.04428340	Italian_Veneto
0.04431050	Italian_Lombardy
0.04501619	Gagauz
0.04506564	Italian_Bergamo
0.04658284	Italian_Liguria
0.04727562	Italian_Campania
0.04752906	Sicilian_West
0.04785316	Bulgarian
0.04823806	Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige

Also, whoever is responsible for the Bulgarian samples should make regional averages. 17 references is too much, especially if some are based on 1-5 samples. That Dupnitsa sticks like a sore thumb.

[vbnetkhio]

Worse and I don't think that there should be duplicate samples.

how do these distance tables prove that one of these versions is better or worse?
one is obviously wrong, but until we figure out which one, they are both equally valid.
Until then, people should be able to compare to both versions and decide which one makes more sense to them.

Also, whoever is responsible for the Bulgarian samples should make regional averages. 17 references is too much, especially if some are based on 1-5 samples. That Dupnitsa sticks like a sore thumb.

it's user Kaspias.

i also made these simplified averages:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...55#post6875455

[Leto]

Yeah, do we really need 5-6 Pomak and Torbeshi references?

[Peterski]

Dupnitsa sticks like a sore thumb.

Like a sore dupa.

[Mingle]

But they were not outliers, they were about 50% of entire sample?

In that thread I posted K15 results of all individual Provence samples.

About half were northern-shifted and the other half southern-shifted.

If "Southerners" were just a small minority I would ignore them.

There was a similar case here with the South Croat samples. There was a group that clustered with Slovenes and another group that clustered with Serbs. Since they were so different, I proposed having separate averages for them and it was done for a while before they were combined again.

So even though the two groups are genetically different, it seems best to combine them as that's what the average person from there should score. Huge outliers (like if one clusters with Normans) could be excluded. Are you able to distinguish between the northern and southern shifted samples with full accuracy? Wouldn't there be some samples transitional between the two that make it hard to decide which one belongs in which group?

[Ion Basescul]

how do these distance tables prove that one of these versions is better or worse?
one is obviously wrong, but until we figure out which one, they are both equally valid.

By showing that the SG one is closer to how it works on Global 25, which is the benchmark against which we should compare.

This one is especially ridiculous.

Davidski's Global 25 (mix of Italian and Balkan pops in distances)

Distance to:	Scythian_MDA:scy197
0.03508725	Italian_Piedmont
0.03581732	Italian_Lombardy
0.03589029	Albanian
0.03589938	Greek_Thessaly
0.03630896	Italian_Liguria
0.03750360	Italian_Tuscany
0.03832999	Italian_Bergamo
0.03878050	Italian_Marche
0.03915087	French_Corsica
0.03992959	Swiss_Italian
0.04056906	Italian_Umbria
0.04087320	Italian_Veneto
0.04097068	Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.04164617	Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.04370796	Italian_Lazio
0.04478593	Italian_Molise
0.04484785	Greek_Peloponnese
0.04653811	Italian_Abruzzo
0.04747566	Italian_Northeast
0.04955077	Greek_Izmir
0.04982110	Gagauz
0.04994709	Spanish_Menorca
0.05021826	Italian_Apulia
0.05125463	Bulgarian
0.05155938	Spanish_Baleares

SG one from K13 (mix of Italian and Balkan pops in distances)

Distance to:	scy197_Moldova_Scythian.SG_1650_ybp
6.87866266	Albanian_north_Albania
7.29365478	Vlach_Central-Macedonia
7.64342855	Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-East
7.69003251	Albanian_Kosovo
7.71172484	Albanian_Albania
7.80235862	Albanian
7.81294439	Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
8.14415128	Albanian_central_Albania
8.32019831	Tuscany
8.68545336	Albanian_Macedonia
8.75502142	Romagna
8.80964490	Kosovo_Albanian
9.07295983	Albanian_south_Albania
9.07667340	Greek_Western-Thrace
9.21926244	Vlach_North-Macedonia
9.23403487	FrenchCorsica
9.39195933	Albanian_Montenegro
9.45345440	Emilia
9.46202410	Tuscan
9.54204381	Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-Central
9.55164384	Greek_Thessaly
9.60281729	Greek_Central-Macedonia
9.68273722	Lazio
9.99962999	Umbria
10.20947599	Marche

Your suggestion (Italians and Southwest Europeans)

Distance to:	ScythianMoldova_SCY197_Moldova_288502632_BC
5.05924896	Lombardy
6.82756179	Piedmont
6.97853853	Swiss-Italian2
7.12679451	Swiss_Italian
8.17178071	Veneto
8.26632929	Liguria
8.45540064	Trentino
8.92888571	FRA_Provence
9.26836555	Emilia
9.47829626	Spanish_Valencia
9.84430292	Portuguese
10.19473884	Spanish_Extremadura
10.28693832	Spanish_Andalucia
10.45607479	Tuscany
10.54939335	Spanish_Murcia
10.83650313	Friuli-VG
10.85466720	FrenchCorsica
11.15533953	Spanish_Galicia
11.24464317	Spanish_Cataluna
11.57187971	Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
11.98993745	Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
12.70738762	Tuscan
12.82517446	FRA_Septimania
13.13780042	AostaValley
13.33125275	Spanish_Cantabria

Bonus, which is self-explanatory really:

Target: vbn(serb)
Distance: 9.5890% / 9.58895517
64.4 AV1_Hungary_Avar_1361_ybp
35.6 ScythianMoldova_SCY197_Moldova_288502632_BC


Target: vbn(serb)
Distance: 5.4774% / 5.47740755
55.6 AV1_Hungary_Avar_1361_ybp
44.4 scy197_Moldova_Scythian.SG_1650_ybp

[Peterski]

By showing that the SG one is closer to how it works on Global 25, which is the benchmark against which we should compare.

This one is especially ridiculous.

Davidski's Global 25 (mix of Italian and Balkan pops in distances)

Distance to:	Scythian_MDA:scy197
0.03508725	Italian_Piedmont
0.03581732	Italian_Lombardy
0.03589029	Albanian
0.03589938	Greek_Thessaly
0.03630896	Italian_Liguria
0.03750360	Italian_Tuscany
0.03832999	Italian_Bergamo
0.03878050	Italian_Marche
0.03915087	French_Corsica
0.03992959	Swiss_Italian
0.04056906	Italian_Umbria
0.04087320	Italian_Veneto
0.04097068	Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.04164617	Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.04370796	Italian_Lazio
0.04478593	Italian_Molise
0.04484785	Greek_Peloponnese
0.04653811	Italian_Abruzzo
0.04747566	Italian_Northeast
0.04955077	Greek_Izmir
0.04982110	Gagauz
0.04994709	Spanish_Menorca
0.05021826	Italian_Apulia
0.05125463	Bulgarian
0.05155938	Spanish_Baleares

SG one from K13 (mix of Italian and Balkan pops in distances)

Distance to:	scy197_Moldova_Scythian.SG_1650_ybp
6.87866266	Albanian_north_Albania
7.29365478	Vlach_Central-Macedonia
7.64342855	Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-East
7.69003251	Albanian_Kosovo
7.71172484	Albanian_Albania
7.80235862	Albanian
7.81294439	Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
8.14415128	Albanian_central_Albania
8.32019831	Tuscany
8.68545336	Albanian_Macedonia
8.75502142	Romagna
8.80964490	Kosovo_Albanian
9.07295983	Albanian_south_Albania
9.07667340	Greek_Western-Thrace
9.21926244	Vlach_North-Macedonia
9.23403487	FrenchCorsica
9.39195933	Albanian_Montenegro
9.45345440	Emilia
9.46202410	Tuscan
9.54204381	Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-Central
9.55164384	Greek_Thessaly
9.60281729	Greek_Central-Macedonia
9.68273722	Lazio
9.99962999	Umbria
10.20947599	Marche

Your suggestion (Italians and Southwest Europeans)

Distance to:	ScythianMoldova_SCY197_Moldova_288502632_BC
5.05924896	Lombardy
6.82756179	Piedmont
6.97853853	Swiss-Italian2
7.12679451	Swiss_Italian
8.17178071	Veneto
8.26632929	Liguria
8.45540064	Trentino
8.92888571	FRA_Provence
9.26836555	Emilia
9.47829626	Spanish_Valencia
9.84430292	Portuguese
10.19473884	Spanish_Extremadura
10.28693832	Spanish_Andalucia
10.45607479	Tuscany
10.54939335	Spanish_Murcia
10.83650313	Friuli-VG
10.85466720	FrenchCorsica
11.15533953	Spanish_Galicia
11.24464317	Spanish_Cataluna
11.57187971	Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
11.98993745	Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
12.70738762	Tuscan
12.82517446	FRA_Septimania
13.13780042	AostaValley
13.33125275	Spanish_Cantabria

Bonus, which is self-explanatory really:

Target: vbn(serb)
Distance: 9.5890% / 9.58895517
64.4 AV1_Hungary_Avar_1361_ybp
35.6 ScythianMoldova_SCY197_Moldova_288502632_BC


Target: vbn(serb)
Distance: 5.4774% / 5.47740755
55.6 AV1_Hungary_Avar_1361_ybp
44.4 scy197_Moldova_Scythian.SG_1650_ybp

^^^ And what is the source of the Non-SG sample?

I remember that I processed and added the SG one.

[Narration]

MDLP K16 Ancient
Target: ME
Distance: 3.7974% / 3.79744022
44.0 Armenia_EBA
23.0 Anatolia_ChL
15.8 Kotias
5.4 Russia_LBA
3.6 Levant_BA
3.2 MiddleDorset
2.2 Vestonice14
1.6 Paglicci108
1.2 Continenza

[vbnetkhio]

By showing that the SG one is closer to how it works on Global 25, which is the benchmark against which we should compare.

why? Davidski obviously just used the reich lab/SG version of the sample.
how does that make this version the better one? maybe Davidski doesn't know about, or doesn't have access to the other version.

This one is especially ridiculous.

Davidski's Global 25 (mix of Italian and Balkan pops in distances)
SG one from K13 (mix of Italian and Balkan pops in distances)

Your suggestion (Italians and Southwest Europeans)

today's Balkanians are a specific mix of paleo-balkanians, different ethnicities from the Roman empire, and Slavs (to cut it short).

paleo-Balkanians were indeed similar to modern NW Italians, Corsicans and Iberians, only after that to Albanians and Greeks.
i'm talking about most of the other paleo-Balkan samples we have, from Croatia, Bulgaria, some from Hungary etc.

so the Moldovan ia samples being the closest to NW Italians too, and distant from modern Balkanians, wouldn't be weird or ridiculous at all.

but, it's still possible that an Albanian-like mix occured in IA Moldova, by SW-Euro-like people mixing with some atypical Scythians or Sarmatians. that's why i don't completely discard the other version yet.

Bonus, which is self-explanatory really:

Target: vbn(serb)
Distance: 9.5890% / 9.58895517
64.4 AV1_Hungary_Avar_1361_ybp
35.6 ScythianMoldova_SCY197_Moldova_288502632_BC


Target: vbn(serb)
Distance: 5.4774% / 5.47740755
55.6 AV1_Hungary_Avar_1361_ybp
44.4 scy197_Moldova_Scythian.SG_1650_ybp

there is one problem with this:


the small circle is where we find Albanian like samples in the Iron age. (maybe)
the big circle is where we find SW European like ones.

modern population from the big circle can be shown as:

SW-Euro-like paleo-Balkanians
+ Imperial Roman samples
+ Slavs.

with very a small distance, too.

now tell me which makes more sense: this 3-way mix i propose, or that the Slavs mixed with an atypical population (which might have not existed at all) living on a very small area in Moldova , and then this mix settled the entire Balkans and completely wiped out the previous population there?