South Slavic & neighbours gedmatch results - vol.2

[WeirdLookingFellow]

I don't know why you are surprised. A lot of people in Romania and Moldova would have had parents or grandparents who were raised in villages, while they were born in towns and cities.

I know almost no Romanian with all 4 grandparents from urban areas, an urba-rural division makes little sense to me in our case. Maybe for some Transylvanian ones.

[Ion Basescul]

I know almost no Romanian with all 4 grandparents from urban areas, an urba-rural division makes little sense to me in our case. Maybe for some Transylvanian ones.

In R. Moldova it's the same. Those whom I know with grandparents from Chisinau, their grandparents are overwhelmingly ethnic minorities like Jews, Russians, Greeks, Poles. There's even one friend of mine who swears on an Italian ggp
Moldovan/Romanians and Ukrainians lived primarily in the countryside prior to the Soviet period.

[ixulescu]

I don't know why you are surprised. A lot of people in Romania and Moldova would have had parents or grandparents who were raised in villages, while they were born in towns and cities.

I consider urban the population that currently lives in cities or suburban areas. I'm not that concerned with the place people were born. From this perspective, I'm not so convinced that true rural people are actively looking for genetic testing.

more boring details here:

Spoiler!

I don't know how things used to be in RM, but in Romania a lot of the rural population that moved to cities used to work in the city before they made the move. In fact, many of them didn't move at all, only their villages became neighborhoods in the larger city. This is a process that continues to this day, and sadly, statistics in Romania do not capture this phenomenon correctly.

Now, this population has been suburban for a long time, it's not really correct to consider it rural. When I talk about villages I think of places that are not within commuting distance to cities.

[ixulescu]

I know almost no Romanian with all 4 grandparents from urban areas, an urba-rural division makes little sense to me in our case. Maybe for some Transylvanian ones.

it's almost certain there is a genetic difference between urban and rural populations in Romania.

cities have above average med, while rural areas have more baltic (except in Baragan).

[Ion Basescul]

I consider urban the population that currently lives in cities or suburban areas. I'm not that concerned with the place people were born. From this perspective, I'm not so convinced that true rural people are actively looking for genetic testing.

more boring details here:

Spoiler!

I don't know how things used to be in RM, but in Romania a lot of the rural population that moved to cities used to work in the city before they made the move. In fact, many of them didn't move at all, only their villages became neighborhoods in the larger city. This is a process that continues to this day, and sadly, statistics in Romania do not capture this phenomenon correctly.

Now, this population has been suburban for a long time, it's not really correct to consider it rural. When I talk about villages I think of places that are not within commuting distance to cities.

They could live even on the moon as far as we should be concerned. What matters is where their grandparents were born.

[Ion Basescul]

it's almost certain there is a genetic difference between urban and rural populations in Romania.

cities have above average med, while rural areas have more baltic (except in Baragan).

Not really, especially for places like Ploiesti and Bucuresti which attract people from all over the country. Those from Moldavia pull the average Southern admixture down in cities from Muntenia. There are people in the rural areas around Ploiesti and Bucuresti with around 21% East Med. But villages are far from being homogenous if that's what you are suggesting. Same is true for the other side of Prut.

[ixulescu]

They could live even on the moon as far as we should be concerned. What matters is where their grandparents were born.

sure, but suburban villages were/are different from the rest of the villages. suburban village population was already closer to that of cities compared that of the proper rural areas. just saying that, "hey most romanians have village born grandparents" is not illuminating. Question is: what kind of village? proper rural or suburban?

urban and rural populations in Romania look uniformly different, and I do expect that to be reflected in genetics

[Ion Basescul]

Here are some Muntenians from villages.

From top to bottom, 4 from Buzau county, 2 Arges, 2 Prahova, 1 Dambovita, 9 Ialomita, 2 Teleorman, 2 Calarasi, 2 Arges

N_Atlantic	Baltic	West_Med	West_Asian	East_Med	Red_Sea	South_Asian	East_Asian	Siberian	Amerindian	Oceanian	NE_African	Sub-Saharan
22.52	23.37	17.82	13.81	17.08	2.44	0	0.42	0.78	1.11	0	0	0.64
19.73	22.63	16.91	13.70	20.31	3.91	0	1.06	0.99	0.49	0	0.27	0
21.66	24.81	20.04	12.00	16.24	1.57	0	0	2.14	0.96	0	0	0.57
21.06	25.82	17.24	12.08	18.56	2.39	0	0	1.81	0.94	0.10	0	0
24.22	23.63	17.55	12.50	16.69	1.83	0.25	2.00	0.31	0	0.07	0.95	0
19.14	26.55	17.57	9.75	21.62	2.97	0.31	0.79	0	1.18	0.13	0	0
23.31	20.50	18.32	10.05	21.07	3.38	0	1.28	0.28	0.10	1.29	0	0.42
25.45	31.50	13.01	8.99	11.95	4.09	1.91	0.19	2.63	0	0	0	0.27
23.65	28.15	14.73	10.75	15.39	2.48	1.40	0.91	0.94	0.97	0	0.62	0
22.34	25.37	17.11	12.08	18.06	1.65	0	1.22	0.80	0.67	0.38	0	0.31
23.26	22.95	18.50	13.46	15.12	3.66	0.34	0.33	1.49	0.88	0	0	0
23.06	23.33	17.96	10.88	18.12	2.67	0.97	0	2.02	0.95	0	0	0
16.87	26.50	17.45	16.62	18.74	0.65	0.95	0	1.42	0	0	0.80	0
21.15	28.46	16.15	8.55	17.62	2.94	0.58	1.39	0	2.64	0.14	0	0.39
17.41	27.21	17.96	12.08	19.75	1.59	0.15	1.03	0.87	1.93	0	0	0
19.04	29.46	17.12	12.06	17.84	0.68	1.51	0.22	0.81	0.72	0.25	0	0.31
22.53	21.05	17.47	15.79	17.37	2.84	0.42	0	2.01	0.52	0	0	0
24.82	20.14	15.32	12.75	20.47	3.56	0	0	2.16	0.13	0.64	0	0
20.78	24.59	17.83	12.38	17.43	1.70	2.59	0	0.46	0.36	1.55	0	0.33
20.46	21.83	20.03	10.55	21.08	3.48	0	1.30	1.22	0.06	0	0	0
23.14	20.71	20.20	13.39	14.27	3.55	1.38	2.28	0.62	0.05	0.28	0.14	0
21.87	24.61	17.16	12.49	18.67	1.19	1.15	0.93	1.25	0	0.52	0	0.17
21.35	21.68	18.13	9.38	23.03	1.95	1.07	1.22	1.03	0	1.15	0	0
24.12	23.85	17.02	11.78	18.38	2.60	0	0	1.16	0.27	0.34	0.48	0
18.32	29.47	16.35	11.37	21.77	1.23	0	0	0.79	0.46	0	0	0.25
23.85	23.20	16.65	9.21	19.25	3.02	1.47	0	0.78	1.51	0.10	0	0.94

[ixulescu]

Here are some Muntenians from villages.

dude, instead of talking let's just test it on each component. I can do it if you send me the data.

[Ion Basescul]

dude, instead of talking let's just test it on each component. I can do it if you send me the data.

You won't get access to personal details, but you can grab what I've posted above and in my threads and work on them. There aren't any substantial differences. If anything, if one were to look at villages in Romania, there are more Gypsies there than in the urban areas on average.