Serbian Autosomal DNA

[PaleoEuropean]

Some balkanites tend to have higher Baltic score, but that's on individual level depending on how much they mixed with more slavic influenced people.

Slavs owe their ancestry partially to Scandinavians/Balts as well.

[MoroLP]

Among "central" Serbs the highest Baltic score is 34, on a very large sample. And among the "northern" there are already a couple of individuals with 36. This is what the northern group is based on. The difference is very small, but it exists for sure.

There surely exist outliers, but the "Baltic" score average for your "North" regional is still ~30. Are they in minority and from a specific region? From where are exactly these samples you based your "North" average?

[vbnetkhio]

There surely exist outliers, but the "Baltic" score average for your "North" regional is still ~30. Are they in minority and from a specific region? From where are exactly these samples you based your "North" average?

They are not outliers but "edge-liers". They are just a natural peak of old Slavic ancestry for their region. For example in Lika there are 2 people with 34, and there are also samples with 33, 32 ,31. Somebody with 37 would be an outlier, because there would be a gap, people 35 and 36 are missing.

If the central range is 24-34 and the average is 29, then the North might end up 26-36, average 31, when more samples are collected. But maybe it won't be so clear-cut.
It seems a genetic cluster (a group of completely mixed people who freely intermarry) has a range of individual components of around 10. (or 8-12)

For now, North is Kordun-Banija, Bosanska Krajina, Northeast Bosnia and Vojvodina. With more samples with a more precise place of origin, it should just be the Northern part of Bosanska Krajina, and also the northern parts of central Serbia.

[MoroLP]

They are not outliers but "edge-liers"... If the central range is 24-34 and the average is 29, then the North might end up 26-36, average 31, when more samples are collected. But maybe it won't be so clear-cut. It seems a genetic cluster (a group of completely mixed people who freely intermarry) has a range of individual components of around 10. (or 8-12)

Ok, that makes sense.

For now, North is Kordun-Banija, Bosanska Krajina, Northeast Bosnia, and Vojvodina. With more samples with a more precise place of origin, it should just be the Northern part of Bosanska Krajina, and also the northern parts of central Serbia.

Hmm, it's kind of following the Sava river, but basically now or then we're not speaking about an established geographic or administrative supra-region. Posavina is too far-fetched by definition, but it's kind of along the line. Now understand "the approximate geographic distribution" of the "North" average. Interesting, wonder if newer samples will be more northern shifted. Keep us updated.

[Dušan]

Also, it's interesting that Serbs from Croatia are so much southern shifted from Croatian regional averages south of river Sava. As if the Serbs were already southernly shifted and intermarried for centuries within their own ethnic & religious community?

It is well known fact that intermarriages between Croats and Serbs in Croatia were very rare because of different religion, in exception of Tito Yugoslav period.

[MoroLP]

It is well known fact that intermarriages between Croats and Serbs in Croatia were very rare because of different religion, in exception of Tito Yugoslav period.

Yes, but it can be read around that supposedly happened partial assimilation of the natives. It's something that would be especially expected in those early centuries upon arrival. If the average of eg Serbs from Bosanska Krajina is a bit more northern-shifted possibly did happen in a low amount, but seemingly, generally speaking, did not as they are all around the Serbian central/national average.

[Dušan]

Yes, but it can be read around that supposedly happened partial assimilation of the natives. It's something that would be especially expected in those early centuries upon arrival. If the average of eg Serbs from Bosanska Krajina is a bit more northern-shifted possibly did happen in a low amount, but seemingly, generally speaking, did not as they are all around the Serbian central/national average.

Western Bosnia, Lika, Kordun, Banija and Dalmatian hinterland were deserted because of Ottoman-Austrian wars, and then these empty areas were settled by Serbs.
I don't know what assimilation could happen.

I for example have higher Baltic score than Serbian average, but it means nothing unusual, since my pre-Slavic element is more central Balkan, or even southern Balkan, than it should be suppoused for far western Dinaric area.

[MoroLP]

Western Bosnia, Lika, Kordun, Banija, and Dalmatian hinterland were deserted because of Ottoman-Austrian wars, and then these empty areas were settled by Serbs. I don't know what assimilation could happen.

Wasn't some Y-DNA subclade unusual for Serbs found among Serbs in Western Bosnia a clue?

[Dušan]

Wasn't some Y-DNA subclade unusual for Serbs found among Serbs in Western Bosnia a clue?

Stop thumb down me for no reason.
Why you desperately want to prove that we got assimilated some Croats? You are so pathetic.

What Y-DNA subcladе? If they exist, they are less than 5%.

[Dušan]

Ethnic map of part of Lika.
Red are Serbs, blue are Croats.

As people can see, villages were very very homogenous. Serbs and Croats lived in separated communities, until industrialisation and urbanisation in Titos Yugoslavia, when lot of population moved to cities, and there started intermarriages.



And BTW, these Lika Croats were no natives either, but Bunjevci settlers from Herzgovina.