Serbian Autosomal DNA

[Jana]

Yes, it's true what Dušan says. For Lika I know that as well.

[Dušan]

Region of Banija 100 years ago - ethnic map.

There were few mixed settlement, especialy little towns, but most villages were either 100% Serbian or 100% Croatian.

[MoroLP]

Stop thumb down me for no reason.

Sorry, my mistake.

Why you desperately want to prove that we got assimilated some Croats? You are so pathetic.

Where? I don't, only said that can be read an opinion which considers partial i.e. minor assimilation. Watch your language.

What Y-DNA subcladе? If they exist, they are less than 5%.

This was published recently I-S17250*, but was also something else, don't remember now if it were R1a subclade. Thought you knew something.

[Jana]

but was also something else, don't remember now if it were R1a subclade. Thought you knew something.

You have Carpatho-Dalmatian R1a subclade in mind (R-Y2608). Yeah it clearly follows Croat expansion. But it's minor among Serb R1a.

[Dušan]

This was published recently I-S17250*, but was also something else, don't remember now if it were R1a subclade. Thought you knew something.

I am not into Y-dna, autosomal genetics is more interesting.

These are 10 surnames among hundreds and hundreds others.
Maybe they don't have matches in Herzegovina, but somewhere more eastern.

[Varda]

Sorry, my mistake.



Where? I don't, only said that can be read an opinion which considers partial i.e. minor assimilation. Watch your language.



This was published recently I-S17250*, but was also something else, don't remember now if it were R1a subclade. Thought you knew something.

You probably think on these ones:
https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?topic=2668.0
https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?topic=532.0

I2-Y3120>S17250>S17250* Serbian families from Bosanska Krajina and Lika who celebrate Markovdan are from Zmijanje. Their further origin is from Konjic according to legend of Knežević family from Zmijanje. They are present on Zmijanja since first half of 16th century for sure.

[Dušan]

You probably think on these ones:
https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?topic=2668.0
https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?topic=532.0

I2-Y3120>S17250>S17250* Serbian families from Bosanska Krajina and Lika who celebrate Markovdan are from Zmijanje. Their further origin is from Konjic according to legend of Knežević family from Zmijanje. They are present on Zmijanja since first half of 16th century for sure.

Nice post from Poreklo forum:


"However, I think that this sub-branch in Krajina is not indigenous. We forget about one unpublished result from Popovo polje (research of Herzegovinians), with a story about the origin from Montenegro. I will quote the editor's comment for this result: "It belongs to haplogroup R1a-Z280, branch YP237> YP951. The closest matches are with those tested from genus A, Medic (1/18), Djap (1/17), Novakovic (2/23) and Demonja (1/15). "

Furthermore, the increased presence of this sub-branch in Krajina can be attributed to two causes:

- the reason for the otherwise increased presence of R1a: M458 L1029 and Z280 Y2613 (solid and Y2902), in Krajina, and the advantage of this haplogroup over E-V13 (emerges in second place in terms of representation after Dinaric), can be found in migrations of farmers from the interior of the Balkans after the collapse of the Serbian state in the Middle Ages. They are immigrants through traditional Serbian areas (Herzegovina, Montenegro, Raska), but we also find them there. I have already discussed that we have Z280 Y2613 in Pomoravlje, Raska, Romania, Bulgaria, and here Aksa says that we have YP237 further east in the interior of the Balkans. YP237 is also present in Montenegro and Herzegovina through the L366 sub-branch (Petrovići and Kadijević from Čeklić). We should not forget (in Krajina) the larger share of sub-branches DYS448 = 20 in Dinaric, which also supports the thesis of more present migrations from the interior of the Balkans. Therefore, the greater presence of these Slavic sub-branches in the western Serbian regions cannot be attributed to the indigenous, and especially not to the old Croatian origin, because it is not just one sub-branch, but several: R1a: M458 L1029, Z280 Y2613, and I2-CTS10228 : Z17855 and S17250 (PH908-).

- founder effect: arrival in desolate areas and sudden demographic expansion, which is present in several other haplogroups. Let's not forget N-P189.2 in Krajina, then Maleševci around Prnjavor, of which there are now more than in Herzegovina and Podrinje together, then Kriče J2b M205, Drobnjake I1 P109, and these are individual genera. These haplogroups are not more represented than R1a in total, but we reduce it to a common ancestor to the level of some 1,000 years, then Banjani / Pivljani, Drobnjaci and Kriči as individual genera had a much stronger demographic expansion than R1a genera (looking at the age of 1,000 years), and I think these three genera together reach even a total of R1a in Krajina. The reason that we have more R1a in Krajina than in Herzegovina and Montenegro, can never be the indigenous presence, especially since we have poorly tested areas of southern Serbia, Kosovo and Metohija, Macedonia, which is a possible base for these immigrants, and these areas were already deep in the interior of the Serbian territory during the collapse of the Serbian state in the Middle Ages."

[Varda]

Nice post from Poreklo forum:


"However, I think that this sub-branch in Krajina is not indigenous. We forget about one unpublished result from Popovo polje (research of Herzegovinians), with a story about the origin from Montenegro. I will quote the editor's comment for this result: "It belongs to haplogroup R1a-Z280, branch YP237> YP951. The closest matches are with those tested from genus A, Medic (1/18), Djap (1/17), Novakovic (2/23) and Demonja (1/15). "

Furthermore, the increased presence of this sub-branch in Krajina can be attributed to two causes:

- the reason for the otherwise increased presence of R1a: M458 L1029 and Z280 Y2613 (solid and Y2902), in Krajina, and the advantage of this haplogroup over E-V13 (emerges in second place in terms of representation after Dinaric), can be found in migrations of farmers from the interior of the Balkans after the collapse of the Serbian state in the Middle Ages. They are immigrants through traditional Serbian areas (Herzegovina, Montenegro, Raska), but we also find them there. I have already discussed that we have Z280 Y2613 in Pomoravlje, Raska, Romania, Bulgaria, and here Aksa says that we have YP237 further east in the interior of the Balkans. YP237 is also present in Montenegro and Herzegovina through the L366 sub-branch (Petrovići and Kadijević from Čeklić). We should not forget (in Krajina) the larger share of sub-branches DYS448 = 20 in Dinaric, which also supports the thesis of more present migrations from the interior of the Balkans. Therefore, the greater presence of these Slavic sub-branches in the western Serbian regions cannot be attributed to the indigenous, and especially not to the old Croatian origin, because it is not just one sub-branch, but several: R1a: M458 L1029, Z280 Y2613, and I2-CTS10228 : Z17855 and S17250 (PH908-).

- founder effect: arrival in desolate areas and sudden demographic expansion, which is present in several other haplogroups. Let's not forget N-P189.2 in Krajina, then Maleševci around Prnjavor, of which there are now more than in Herzegovina and Podrinje together, then Kriče J2b M205, Drobnjake I1 P109, and these are individual genera. These haplogroups are not more represented than R1a in total, but we reduce it to a common ancestor to the level of some 1,000 years, then Banjani / Pivljani, Drobnjaci and Kriči as individual genera had a much stronger demographic expansion than R1a genera (looking at the age of 1,000 years), and I think these three genera together reach even a total of R1a in Krajina. The reason that we have more R1a in Krajina than in Herzegovina and Montenegro, can never be the indigenous presence, especially since we have poorly tested areas of southern Serbia, Kosovo and Metohija, Macedonia, which is a possible base for these immigrants, and these areas were already deep in the interior of the Serbian territory during the collapse of the Serbian state in the Middle Ages."

One Croatian guy from western Herzegovina who is R1a-Z280>YP237>YP951 explores own further origin, his surname is Grubišić.
Interesting fact is that Serbian Krajina family Grubor is also R1a-Z280>YP237>YP951 and according to legend they originated from prince Grubiša from Zmijanje.

[CommonSense]

You have Carpatho-Dalmatian R1a subclade in mind (R-Y2608). Yeah it clearly follows Croat expansion. But it's minor among Serb R1a.

That branch exists among Serbs from the Kosovo-Raška area too. One muslim from Sandžak on our FTDNA project belongs to that clade. His surname is Kuč and he claims to be from a family indigenous to old Raška and that the Kuči tribe was originally of Slavic paternal descent as he is. I saw that he posted on the Bosniak DNA project facebook page too but they got mad at him because he was allegedly spreading Serbian and Slavic propaganda lol.

[Dušan]

Some of my new matches on Gedmatch:

Population
North_Atlantic 29.01 Pct
Baltic 28.46 Pct
West_Med 15.98 Pct
West_Asian 6.2 Pct
East_Med 17.74 Pct
Red_Sea 0.33 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian 1.68 Pct
Amerindian 0.52 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Spoiler!

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 4.52
2 Romanian 7.26
3 Hungarian 8.29
4 Moldavian 9.45
5 Bulgarian 9.52
6 Croatian 10.33
7 Austrian 11.18
8 East_German 12.74
9 West_German 15.67
10 South_Polish 16.27
11 Ukrainian_Lviv 16.54
12 Greek_Thessaly 16.97
13 French 17.12
14 South_Dutch 17.16
15 Ukrainian 17.34
16 North_Italian 17.58
17 Tuscan 19.37
18 Polish 20.03
19 Portuguese 20.08
20 North_German 20.33

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 54.3% Tuscan + 45.7% Belorussian @ 3.48
2 54% Tuscan + 46% Estonian_Polish @ 3.78
3 51.7% Tuscan + 48.3% Southwest_Russian @ 3.83
4 57.9% Tuscan + 42.1% Estonian @ 3.84
5 77.6% Hungarian + 22.4% Ashkenazi @ 3.87
6 57.9% Greek_Thessaly + 42.1% Southwest_Finnish @ 3.87
7 59.1% Tuscan + 40.9% Lithuanian @ 3.88
8 54.6% South_Polish + 45.4% Tuscan @ 3.88
9 52.9% West_Sicilian + 47.1% Estonian @ 4
10 81.6% Hungarian + 18.4% Italian_Jewish @ 4.05
11 81.8% Hungarian + 18.2% Algerian_Jewish @ 4.06
12 52.9% Ukrainian + 47.1% Tuscan @ 4.1
13 69.6% Hungarian + 30.4% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.15
14 59.6% South_Polish + 40.4% West_Sicilian @ 4.19
15 53.8% Tuscan + 46.2% Russian_Smolensk @ 4.23
16 94.1% Serbian + 5.9% Southwest_Finnish @ 4.29
17 84% Serbian + 16% Hungarian @ 4.31
18 94.4% Serbian + 5.6% North_Swedish @ 4.33
19 72.1% Bulgarian + 27.9% North_Swedish @ 4.33
20 94.5% Serbian + 5.5% Southeast_English @ 4.34

---

Population
North_Atlantic 22.7 Pct
Baltic 29.25 Pct
West_Med 20.08 Pct
West_Asian 6.95 Pct
East_Med 17.81 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian 0.28 Pct
East_Asian -
Siberian 1.17 Pct
Amerindian 1.06 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 0.64 Pct
Sub-Saharan 0.06 Pct

Spoiler!

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Romanian 6.79
2 Serbian 6.92
3 Bulgarian 7.28
4 Moldavian 9.39
5 Croatian 11.51
6 Hungarian 12.76
7 Greek_Thessaly 14.71
8 Austrian 15.98
9 East_German 17.07
10 Ukrainian_Lviv 17.71
11 North_Italian 18.29
12 South_Polish 18.5
13 Ukrainian 18.5
14 Tuscan 19.29
15 West_German 20.95
16 French 21.44
17 Italian_Abruzzo 21.75
18 Southwest_Russian 21.78
19 Polish 21.83
20 Central_Greek 21.93

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 56.2% Greek_Thessaly + 43.8% Ukrainian @ 4.52
2 63% Ukrainian + 37% Algerian_Jewish @ 4.92
3 57.1% Croatian + 42.9% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.93
4 62.8% Greek_Thessaly + 37.2% Estonian_Polish @ 4.95
5 77% Bulgarian + 23% Ukrainian @ 4.97
6 58.9% Ukrainian + 41.1% South_Italian @ 4.98
7 55% Ukrainian + 45% West_Sicilian @ 5.01
8 74.5% Croatian + 25.5% Algerian_Jewish @ 5.02
9 67.4% Greek_Thessaly + 32.6% Lithuanian @ 5.07
10 66.5% Bulgarian + 33.5% Croatian @ 5.08
11 60.6% Greek_Thessaly + 39.4% Polish @ 5.09
12 81.8% Bulgarian + 18.2% Estonian_Polish @ 5.09
13 67.1% Greek_Thessaly + 32.9% Estonian @ 5.1
14 84.6% Bulgarian + 15.4% Estonian @ 5.17
15 56.3% Greek_Thessaly + 43.7% South_Polish @ 5.19
16 84.9% Bulgarian + 15.1% Lithuanian @ 5.2
17 63.2% Ukrainian + 36.8% Italian_Jewish @ 5.2
18 80.7% Bulgarian + 19.3% Polish @ 5.21
19 82.7% Bulgarian + 17.3% Belorussian @ 5.24
20 55.2% Greek_Thessaly + 44.8% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 5.25

---

Population
North_Atlantic 26.24 Pct
Baltic 33.77 Pct
West_Med 16.01 Pct
West_Asian 7.19 Pct
East_Med 15.23 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian 0.24 Pct
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.11 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.25 Pct
Northeast_African 0.21 Pct
Sub-Saharan 0.7 Pct

Spoiler!

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 5.55
2 Croatian 5.93
3 Serbian 6.59
4 Hungarian 7.9
5 Romanian 9.73
6 Bulgarian 11.42
7 Austrian 11.95
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.02
9 South_Polish 12.22
10 East_German 12.5
11 Ukrainian 12.72
12 Polish 15.74
13 Southwest_Russian 16
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 16.47
15 Russian_Smolensk 17.79
16 Estonian_Polish 18.08
17 Belorussian 18.6
18 West_German 18.75
19 Greek_Thessaly 20.01
20 South_Dutch 20.18

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 51.8% Bulgarian + 48.2% South_Polish @ 3.25
2 62.6% South_Polish + 37.4% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.27
3 75.4% South_Polish + 24.6% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.37
4 69% Ukrainian + 31% West_Sicilian @ 3.37
5 58.5% Bulgarian + 41.5% Polish @ 3.39
6 62.7% Bulgarian + 37.3% Belorussian @ 3.42
7 52.9% Bulgarian + 47.1% Ukrainian @ 3.43
8 74.6% Ukrainian + 25.4% Italian_Jewish @ 3.44
9 60.3% Southwest_Russian + 39.7% Tuscan @ 3.45
10 61.7% Ukrainian + 38.3% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.48
11 67.3% Bulgarian + 32.7% Estonian @ 3.52
12 85.8% Croatian + 14.2% Ashkenazi @ 3.53
13 62% Bulgarian + 38% Estonian_Polish @ 3.54
14 75.5% South_Polish + 24.5% Italian_Jewish @ 3.55
15 56.2% Polish + 43.8% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.57
16 66.2% Romanian + 33.8% Estonian_Polish @ 3.59
17 66.9% Romanian + 33.1% Belorussian @ 3.59
18 54.4% Lithuanian + 45.6% West_Sicilian @ 3.59
19 71.2% South_Polish + 28.8% Ashkenazi @ 3.6
20 88.4% Croatian + 11.6% Italian_Jewish @ 3.6

---

Population
North_Atlantic 23.03 Pct
Baltic 30.75 Pct
West_Med 15.57 Pct
West_Asian 9.11 Pct
East_Med 17.94 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian 1.67 Pct
Amerindian 0.26 Pct
Oceanian 1.32 Pct
Northeast_African 0.35 Pct
Sub-Saharan -

Spoiler!

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 5.83
2 Romanian 6.69
3 Moldavian 7.37
4 Bulgarian 7.54
5 Croatian 9.83
6 Hungarian 11.11
7 Austrian 15.22
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 15.7
9 Greek_Thessaly 16.13
10 East_German 16.35
11 South_Polish 16.4
12 Ukrainian 16.62
13 Southwest_Russian 19.22
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 19.64
15 Polish 19.92
16 West_German 20.76
17 North_Italian 20.88
18 Tuscan 21.38
19 Russian_Smolensk 21.54
20 Tatar 21.85

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 73.2% Bulgarian + 26.8% Southwest_Russian @ 2.87
2 76.2% Bulgarian + 23.8% Belorussian @ 2.92
3 75.7% Bulgarian + 24.3% Estonian_Polish @ 2.95
4 79.5% Bulgarian + 20.5% Lithuanian @ 3.02
5 79.3% Bulgarian + 20.7% Estonian @ 3.07
6 79.8% Bulgarian + 20.2% East_Finnish @ 3.12
7 70.5% Bulgarian + 29.5% Ukrainian @ 3.2
8 77.2% Bulgarian + 22.8% Kargopol_Russian @ 3.21
9 54.5% Greek_Thessaly + 45.5% Southwest_Russian @ 3.22
10 75.8% Bulgarian + 24.2% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.25
11 74.1% Bulgarian + 25.9% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.3
12 79.5% Bulgarian + 20.5% Finnish @ 3.33
13 78.1% Bulgarian + 21.9% Erzya @ 3.4
14 70.5% Bulgarian + 29.5% South_Polish @ 3.45
15 59% Southwest_Russian + 41% South_Italian @ 3.48
16 60.3% Ukrainian + 39.7% Ashkenazi @ 3.48
17 66.3% Ukrainian + 33.7% Italian_Jewish @ 3.49
18 74.6% Bulgarian + 25.4% Polish @ 3.51
19 58.4% Greek_Thessaly + 41.6% Belorussian @ 3.54
20 55.7% Southwest_Russian + 44.3% West_Sicilian @ 3.57