Ukrainian academic regional k13 results - more than 100

**vbnetkhio** · 02-17-2021, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by Nurzat

then, only using the Ukrainian samples and Romanian 10 regions averages:

Target: Nurzat
Distance: 1.7171% / 1.71713205 - distance too high
53.3 Ukraine_Ternopilska
15.3 Romania_Muntenia
13.2 Romania_Oltenia
10.2 Ukraine_Zakarpatska
5.5 Ukraine_Kropyvnytska
2.5 Ukraine_Chernivetska

this is probably the best model for you. between Romanians and Southwest Ukrainians.
around 2 is a pefect distance, 4 or more would be high.

Originally Posted by Nurzat

when to Ukrainian and Romanian I add Greek and German samples - much better distance (Caucasus-rich Greek makes sense in the case of Greek boyars in Moldova, that often actually came from present Turkey), but funnily no Romanian samples get chosen, maybe because Moldovans are naturally a sort of a Ukrainian-Greek mix (not ethnically or recent but in terms of macro components, like Farmer plus Steppe model)?

Target: Nurzat
Distance: 0.9940% / 0.99401827
52.4 Ukraine_Ternopilska
21.6 Ukraine_Zakarpatska
11.3 Greek_Western-Thrace
5.3 Greek_Trabzon
5.1 German_West
4.3 Ukraine_Kropyvnytska

I think Greek Trabzon and German even out into something like those late West Scythian samples, add Greek_Western-Thrace to that and you again get something Romanian/Moldovan like, so it's just getting broken down into more basic componets here.

**~~Ion Basescul~~** · 02-17-2021, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Nurzat

running these samples (less the three outliers) together with the K13 updated sheet:

Target: Nurzat
Distance: 0.3427% / 0.34270312
39.3 Ukraine_Ternopilska
17.7 Ukraine_Kropyvnytska
12.8 Ukraine_Sumska
7.2 Abhkasian
7.2 Ukraine_Zakarpatska
6.7 French_Basque
3.3 Sardinia
2.8 Dargin
1.3 Greek_Northern-Thrace
0.7 Turk_East_Black_Sea
0.4 Yoruban
0.3 Dai
0.2 Greek_Western-Thrace
0.1 She

then, only using the Ukrainian samples and Romanian 10 regions averages:

Target: Nurzat
Distance: 1.7171% / 1.71713205 - distance too high
53.3 Ukraine_Ternopilska
15.3 Romania_Muntenia
13.2 Romania_Oltenia
10.2 Ukraine_Zakarpatska
5.5 Ukraine_Kropyvnytska
2.5 Ukraine_Chernivetska

when to Ukrainian and Romanian I add Greek and German samples - much better distance (Caucasus-rich Greek makes sense in the case of Greek boyars in Moldova, that often actually came from present Turkey), but funnily no Romanian samples get chosen, maybe because Moldovans are naturally a sort of a Ukrainian-Greek mix (not ethnically or recent but in terms of macro components, like Farmer plus Steppe model)?

Target: Nurzat
Distance: 0.9940% / 0.99401827
52.4 Ukraine_Ternopilska
21.6 Ukraine_Zakarpatska
11.3 Greek_Western-Thrace
5.3 Greek_Trabzon
5.1 German_West
4.3 Ukraine_Kropyvnytska

Distance to: Nurzat

Spoiler!

There is such a thing as too low of a distance. It doesn't mean that the lower the better, because you arrive in overfit territory. The ideal balance is within 2-3% when modelling yourself as part of various references.
Also don't expect to be a perfect 50/50 split. You will likely not be a perfect 50/50 autosomal split between your parents' data, let alone some random references.

**Nurzat** · 02-17-2021, 02:45 PM

at least some of the West Med, East Med and Caucasian may and has to be much older than any recent flow of population from the Balkans (Vlachophones) - Central and Western Ukraine was inhabited by Trypillia and Globular Amphora populations that were Sardinian-like, some Neolithic heritage must have stayed in the region. the around 20% low average of West and East med combined must be that old, probably what goes higher may be sign of recent admix, but some other populations brought higher Neolithic scores as well, not only the Vlachs, for example the Hungarians and the Germans

**Kriptc06** · 02-17-2021, 02:51 PM

Distance to: Kriptc
26.98065233 Ukraine_Zakarpatska

erechyn_district_Turji_Remety_EG60008_
27.74954414 Ukraine_Zakarpatska:Vynogradiv_EG600035
28.49063530 Ukraine_Zakarpatska:Tyachiv_district_Krychovo_EG60 004
28.93386597 o_Ukraine_Zhytomyrska:EG600048
29.27313786 Ukraine_Ternopilska:Berezhany_district_Narajiv_EG6 00011
29.30730114 o_Ukraine_Luhansk:Lugansk_EG600093
29.51479121 Ukraine_Lvivska:molgen_
29.53084828 Ukraine_Ivano-Frankivska:apricity_
29.63405473 Ukraine_Zakarpatska:Rahiv_district_Kosivska_Polyan a_EG60001_
29.73444467 Ukraine_Chernivetska:R1a1c_
30.10521882 Ukraine_Zakarpatska:Mukachiv_district_Zavydovo_EG6 0007
30.25762218 Ukraine_Zakarpatska:Vynogradiv_district_Koroleve_E G600027
30.47236945 Ukraine_Zakarpatska:Tyachiv_district_Ternovo_EG600 010
30.84057392 Ukraine_Ivano-Frankivska:apricity_
31.40976918 Ukraine_Lvivska:Turka_district_Kryvka_EG600018
31.54233346 Ukraine_Zakarpatska:Uzhgorod_EG600036
31.56537027 Ukraine_Zakarpatska:Vynogradiv_district_Oleshnyk_E G60009
31.61273319 Ukraine_Lvivska:Turka_EG600089
31.76015428 Ukraine_Zakarpatska:Uzhgorod_EG600096
32.18377386 Ukraine_Zakarpatska:Uzhgorod_district_Lyahivtsi_EG 60005
32.28070941 Ukraine_Zakarpatska:Uzhgorod_district_Hudlevo_EG60 0076
32.36422717 Ukraine_Zakarpatska:Mizhgirya_district_Kolochava_E G600032
32.51463517 Ukraine_Ivano-Frankivska:apricity_
32.57445779 Ukraine_Zakarpatska:Irshava_district_Dobrobratovo_ EG60002
32.84306928 o_Ukraine_Zaporizka:r1a2b

Target: Kriptc
Distance: 2236.5568% / 22.36556759
52.8 Ukraine_Zakarpatska
47.2 o_Ukraine_Zhytomyrska

very distant lol

**Aspirin** · 02-17-2021, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Nurzat

at least some of the West Med, East Med and Caucasian may and has to be much older than any recent flow of population from the Balkans (Vlachophones) - Central and Western Ukraine was inhabited by Trypillia and Globular Amphora populations that were Sardinian-like, some Neolithic heritage must have stayed in the region. the around 20% low average of West and East med combined must be that old, probably what goes higher may be sign of recent admix, but some other populations brought higher Neolithic scores as well, not only the Vlachs, for example the Hungarians and the Germans

Always laugh how you try to connect this visible Balkan genetic influence in Western Ukraine to some super ancient populations which don't make absolutely any sense, because is almost entirely concentrated in Carpathian region, not all Western Ukraine.

**Nurzat** · 02-17-2021, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by Aspirin

Always laugh how you try to connect this visible Balkan genetic influence in Western Ukraine to some super ancient populations which don't make absolutely any sense, because is almost entirely concentrated in Carpathian region, not all Western Ukraine.

your theory doesn't follow geography, as you claim: Ivano-Frankivsk (38%) scores more Baltic than Chernivtsi (35%) or Ternopil (37%) and similar to Lviv (39%), anyway close enough to Ukrainian average (42%).

long before Vlachs the Scythians northwest of the Black Sea already had WestMed+EastMed+RedSea 28% on average, with individual scores from 14% to over 50%. so for sure it wasn't Vlachs to introduce Mediterranean genes to Ukrainians, those genes became part of the local genepool long before Slavic ethnogenesis happened

**Aspirin** · 02-17-2021, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Nurzat

your theory doesn't follow geography, as you claim: Ivano-Frankivsk (38%) scores more Baltic than Chernivtsi (35%) or Ternopil (37%) and similar to Lviv (39%), anyway close enough to Ukrainian average (42%).

long before Vlachs the Scythians northwest of the Black Sea already had WestMed+EastMed+RedSea 28% on average, with individual scores from 14% to over 50%. so for sure it wasn't Vlachs to introduce Mediterranean genes to Ukrainians, those genes became part of the local genepool long before Slavic ethnogenesis happened

I don't understand what you're talking about, most of these southern shifted samples are specifically from this area, Ternopil sample is just an outlier, can be a simple post-Soviet mix. The Scythian theory is just laughlable.

**Nurzat** · 02-17-2021, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by Aspirin

I don't understand what you're talking about, most of these southern shifted samples are specifically from this area, Ternopil sample is just an outlier, can be a simple post-Soviet mix. The Scythian theory is just laughlable.

Spoiler!

not only that Ukrainians don't have the bulk of their Mediterranean genes from Vlachs, but even northern and northeastern Romanians have the bulk of their Mediterranean DNA from sources previous to Vlach migration (Vlachs arrived 12th-14th century north of Danube, then slowly northwards and eastwards). because, again, the entire region was populated by Neolithic farmers and the 20% Mediterranean in Ukrainians is a legacy of that, not recent Vlach admixture (except exceptions which are exceptional and not the norm, norm is the norm, norm is Neolithic continuity, diluted, to this day, from Trypillia and Globular Amphora peoples)

**~~Ion Basescul~~** · 02-17-2021, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by Nurzat

your theory doesn't follow geography, as you claim: Ivano-Frankivsk (38%) scores more Baltic than Chernivtsi (35%) or Ternopil (37%) and similar to Lviv (39%), anyway close enough to Ukrainian average (42%).

long before Vlachs the Scythians northwest of the Black Sea already had WestMed+EastMed+RedSea 28% on average, with individual scores from 14% to over 50%. so for sure it wasn't Vlachs to introduce Mediterranean genes to Ukrainians, those genes became part of the local genepool long before Slavic ethnogenesis happened

If Romanians/Moldovans in Chernivtsi oblast can score 23% Atlantic, 37% Baltic, which obviously comes from being heavily mixed with Ukrainians, then there's no way in hell that the average Ukrainian there is this that we have in the thread. Also bear in mind that it is based on only two samples.

-	sample size	North_Atlantic	Baltic	West_Med	West_Asian	East_Med	Red_Sea	South_Asian	East_Asian	Siberian	Amerindian	Oceanian	Northeast_African	Sub-Saharan
Chernivetska	2	23.28	35.95	13.66	9.77	12.08	1.28	0	0.19	1.64	1.15	0.5	0.51	0

**~~Ion Basescul~~** · 02-17-2021, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by Aspirin

I don't understand what you're talking about, most of these southern shifted samples are specifically from this area, Ternopil sample is just an outlier, can be a simple post-Soviet mix. The Scythian theory is just laughlable.

I will tell you even more. According to LivingDNA, the territory that you highlighted is more Southern than some districts in Republic of Moldova. You see pure Moldovans are more Northern than those Ukrainians like that.

Here are their regions for East Balkans and Northeast Europe:

Now let's look closer and overlay them over a map:

Zoomed in on Moldova: