Dodecad k12b West & Central Asian results Vol 4.

**Lucas** · 04-09-2021, 09:08 PM

Some guy from Iran which I knew (not from this forum), give me those averages based on Gedmatch kits. Check and decide if they shoudl be added to official Dodecad?

Code:

Alevi(Zaza&Kurmanji)_Dersim,23.89,1.05,0.95,0.25,8.36,8.25,2.5,0.14,13.06,0.66,40.84,0.05
Alevi_Kurmanji_CEAnatolia,23.56,1.34,0.79,0.4,9.08,8.44,2.75,0.29,12.58,0.98,39.46,0.18
Armenian_Arapgir,17.7,0.41,0.35,0,12.46,5.34,1.3,0,14.73,0,47.65,0.08
Iran_Gilaki,33.46,0.26,0.44,0,2.36,4.49,3.64,0.34,11.65,0.44,42.88,0
Persian_Bushehr,27.01,0.47,1.69,0,3.8,8.32,3.15,1.09,15.03,0.2,36.17,0
Persian_Beiram,28.43,0.76,0.84,0,5.67,8.57,6.97,1.63,12.88,0,33.42,0.83
Persian_Esfahan,27.40 ,0.74,0,0.88,5.64,7.21,5.63,0.39,12.64,0,39.48,0
Persian_Khuzestan,27.65,0.68,0.29,0.52,4.76,7.1,5.55,0.54,13.75,0.33,36.56,2.23
Persian_Shiraz,27.82,0.9,2.6,0,3.98,5.92,6.24,0.45,14.88,0.06,37.1,0
Persian_Yazd,29.78,0.68,0.39,0,6.4,9.25,6.55,0.57,11.78,0,34.56,0.1

**Dr_Maul** · 04-09-2021, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by Lucas

Some guy from Iran which I knew (not from this forum), give me those averages based on Gedmatch kits. Check and decide if they shoudl be added to official Dodecad?

Code:

Alevi(Zaza&Kurmanji)_Dersim,23.89,1.05,0.95,0.25,8.36,8.25,2.5,0.14,13.06,0.66,40.84,0.05
Alevi_Kurmanji_CEAnatolia,23.56,1.34,0.79,0.4,9.08,8.44,2.75,0.29,12.58,0.98,39.46,0.18
Armenian_Arapgir,17.7,0.41,0.35,0,12.46,5.34,1.3,0,14.73,0,47.65,0.08
Iran_Gilaki,33.46,0.26,0.44,0,2.36,4.49,3.64,0.34,11.65,0.44,42.88,0
Persian_Bushehr,27.01,0.47,1.69,0,3.8,8.32,3.15,1.09,15.03,0.2,36.17,0
Persian_Beiram,28.43,0.76,0.84,0,5.67,8.57,6.97,1.63,12.88,0,33.42,0.83
Persian_Esfahan,27.40 ,0.74,0,0.88,5.64,7.21,5.63,0.39,12.64,0,39.48,0
Persian_Khuzestan,27.65,0.68,0.29,0.52,4.76,7.1,5.55,0.54,13.75,0.33,36.56,2.23
Persian_Shiraz,27.82,0.9,2.6,0,3.98,5.92,6.24,0.45,14.88,0.06,37.1,0
Persian_Yazd,29.78,0.68,0.39,0,6.4,9.25,6.55,0.57,11.78,0,34.56,0.1

Persian and Gilak averages seem good. Bushehr/Bandari will be "off" as always due to extreme diversity. Can't comment on Alevis or the Armenian. But the Iranian ones seem legit

**Halgurd** · 04-10-2021, 12:05 AM

Alevi(Zaza&Kurmanji)_Dersim,23.89,1.05,0.95,0.25,8.36,8.25,2. 5,0.14,13.06,0.66,40.84,0.05
Alevi_Kurmanji_CEAnatolia,23.56,1.34,0.79,0.4,9.08 ,8.44,2.75,0.29,12.58,0.98,39.46,0.18

What sort of names are these? I swear people are afraid to say 'Kurd'

It's like saying Sunni(Sorani)_Erbil in my case. Or how about Protestant(Cockney)_London. Makes no sense. Kurd_Dersim and Kurd_Anatolia is enough.

**Dr_Maul** · 04-10-2021, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by Halgurd

What sort of names are these? I swear people are afraid to say 'Kurd'

It's like saying Sunni(Sorani)_Erbil in my case. Or how about Protestant(Cockney)_London. Makes no sense. Kurd_Dersim and Kurd_Anatolia is enough.

Alevis are probably a bit different than standard Kurds, especially some who are mixed with Turkish.

**Kyp** · 04-10-2021, 01:58 AM

Originally Posted by Lucas

Some guy from Iran which I knew (not from this forum), give me those averages based on Gedmatch kits. Check and decide if they shoudl be added to official Dodecad?

Code:

Alevi(Zaza&Kurmanji)_Dersim,23.89,1.05,0.95,0.25,8.36,8.25,2.5,0.14,13.06,0.66,40.84,0.05
Alevi_Kurmanji_CEAnatolia,23.56,1.34,0.79,0.4,9.08,8.44,2.75,0.29,12.58,0.98,39.46,0.18
Armenian_Arapgir,17.7,0.41,0.35,0,12.46,5.34,1.3,0,14.73,0,47.65,0.08
Iran_Gilaki,33.46,0.26,0.44,0,2.36,4.49,3.64,0.34,11.65,0.44,42.88,0
Persian_Bushehr,27.01,0.47,1.69,0,3.8,8.32,3.15,1.09,15.03,0.2,36.17,0
Persian_Beiram,28.43,0.76,0.84,0,5.67,8.57,6.97,1.63,12.88,0,33.42,0.83
Persian_Esfahan,27.40 ,0.74,0,0.88,5.64,7.21,5.63,0.39,12.64,0,39.48,0
Persian_Khuzestan,27.65,0.68,0.29,0.52,4.76,7.1,5.55,0.54,13.75,0.33,36.56,2.23
Persian_Shiraz,27.82,0.9,2.6,0,3.98,5.92,6.24,0.45,14.88,0.06,37.1,0
Persian_Yazd,29.78,0.68,0.39,0,6.4,9.25,6.55,0.57,11.78,0,34.56,0.1

We already have enough Iranian averages. Gilaki is similar to Mazandarani. If one can be added it's the Isfahan one as there is no central Iranian average. There are also enough Kurdish averages. I don't think Alevis should have an own one either. I think the existing Zaza and Kurmanji kurdish averages already are based on Anatolian Kurds and they dont differ really from these ones.

**Halgurd** · 04-10-2021, 02:46 AM

Originally Posted by Halgurd

What sort of names are these? I swear people are afraid to say 'Kurd'

It's like saying Sunni(Sorani)_Erbil in my case. Or how about Protestant(Cockney)_London. Makes no sense. Kurd_Dersim and Kurd_Anatolia is enough.

Originally Posted by Dr_Maul

Alevis are probably a bit different than standard Kurds, especially some who are mixed with Turkish.

How? The Dersim average doesn't deviate from the Kurdish average. The vast majority of Alevi Kurdish results are in line with the Kurdish average. There is a minority of Alevi Kurdish results with an Anatolian shift, and in all cases this is due to recent non Kurdish ancestry.
If a Kurd has recent Turkish ancestry then it will show. If not, then it won't. Those with recent non Kurdish admix (a single non Kurdish great grandparent suffices this category) shouldn't be included in an average either way. This is actually the problem with the Kurdish average on G25, hence why it is useless for modelling Kurds.

**Dr_Maul** · 04-10-2021, 03:57 AM

Originally Posted by Halgurd

How? The Dersim average doesn't deviate from the Kurdish average. The vast majority of Alevi Kurdish results are in line with the Kurdish average. There is a minority of Alevi Kurdish results with an Anatolian shift, and in all cases this is due to recent non Kurdish ancestry.
If a Kurd has recent Turkish ancestry then it will show. If not, then it won't. Those with recent non Kurdish admix (a single non Kurdish great grandparent suffices this category) shouldn't be included in an average either way. This is actually the problem with the Kurdish average on G25, hence why it is useless for modelling Kurds.

The average Kurd may not be 1/8 non-Kurd but an Alevi might be on average, that is my point

**Kyp** · 04-10-2021, 07:35 AM

Bozulu Turkmen from Afyonkarahisar:

They were one of those Eastern Anatolian Turkmens (Aq Qoyunlu) that migrated to the Ottomans instead to Iran:

YDNA: R1a-Z93

Gedrosia: 14.85
Siberian: 5.97
NW_African: 0.71
SE_Asian: 0.00
Atlantic_Med: 9.27
North_European: 14.10
South_Asian: 4.39
East_African: 0.00
SW_Asian: 10.63
East_Asian: 5.12
Caucasus: 34.70
SSA: 0.26

Distance to: Bozulu_Afyonk
6.00925952 Turk_Southwest
6.13437038 Turk_South
6.67547751 Turk_Northwest
6.96452439 Turk_West_BlackSea
7.18721782 Turk_Central_West
8.08239445 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
8.86025959 Turk_Central_East
9.04869604 Turk_Southeast
9.66317236 Azerbaijani_Northwest
9.67873959 Azerbaijani
10.42682118 Azerbaijani_Turkey
11.12786592 Azerbaijani_North
11.38041739 Azerbaijani_Iran
12.04375357 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
12.28562982 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain
12.33073802 Kabardin
12.96702742 Kumyk
13.33081018 Abazin
13.76719652 Turkmen_Iran
14.42800749 Circassian
14.48035911 Turkmen_Iraq
14.48555487 Turkmen_TM
14.79276512 Kurd_Kurmanji
14.89085961 Karachay
14.92288511 Turk_East

Target: Bozulu_Afyonk
Distance: 2.7480% / 2.74804756 | ADC: 0.5x RC
57.3 Turk_South
12.8 Balkan_Gypsy
12.8 Nogai
6.3 Kumyk
5.6 Turk_Northwest
5.2 Turkmen_Iran

**~~Altaylı~~** · 04-10-2021, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by Kyp

Bozulu Turkmen from Afyonkarahisar:

They were one of those Eastern Anatolian Turkmens (Aq Qoyunlu) that migrated to the Ottomans instead to Iran:

YDNA: R1a-Z93

Gedrosia: 14.85
Siberian: 5.97
NW_African: 0.71
SE_Asian: 0.00
Atlantic_Med: 9.27
North_European: 14.10
South_Asian: 4.39
East_African: 0.00
SW_Asian: 10.63
East_Asian: 5.12
Caucasus: 34.70
SSA: 0.26

Distance to: Bozulu_Afyonk
6.00925952 Turk_Southwest
6.13437038 Turk_South
6.67547751 Turk_Northwest
6.96452439 Turk_West_BlackSea
7.18721782 Turk_Central_West
8.08239445 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
8.86025959 Turk_Central_East
9.04869604 Turk_Southeast
9.66317236 Azerbaijani_Northwest
9.67873959 Azerbaijani
10.42682118 Azerbaijani_Turkey
11.12786592 Azerbaijani_North
11.38041739 Azerbaijani_Iran
12.04375357 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
12.28562982 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain
12.33073802 Kabardin
12.96702742 Kumyk
13.33081018 Abazin
13.76719652 Turkmen_Iran
14.42800749 Circassian
14.48035911 Turkmen_Iraq
14.48555487 Turkmen_TM
14.79276512 Kurd_Kurmanji
14.89085961 Karachay
14.92288511 Turk_East

Target: Bozulu_Afyonk
Distance: 2.7480% / 2.74804756 | ADC: 0.5x RC
57.3 Turk_South
12.8 Balkan_Gypsy
12.8 Nogai
6.3 Kumyk
5.6 Turk_Northwest
5.2 Turkmen_Iran

Probably all of eastern anatolian Turkmens(Şereflü Bozulus Danishmendids Hacıahmetli etc) migrated west(Ankara Afyonkarahisar kırşehir aksaray etc.) in Ottoman era probably this is why eastern anatolian Turks score low Turkic like erzurum

**Kyp** · 04-10-2021, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by Altaylı

Probably all of eastern anatolian Turkmens(Şereflü Bozulus Danishmendids Hacıahmetli etc) migrated west(Ankara Afyonkarahisar kırşehir aksaray etc.) in Ottoman era probably this is why eastern anatolian Turks score low Turkic like erzurum

They migrated either west or east (to Iran/Azerbaijan). A lot of Qizilbash originated from Eastern Anatolia (Diyarbakir especially).