Classify Spanish footballer Angel Montoro

[Gota_type_]

Not every dark spaniard has to be of gypsy/foreign background, just like not every Nordic Spaniard has to be of foreign background. I've noticed a lot of Southern Europeans accuse their fellow countrymen of darker complexion as being of foreign background, but interestingly enough they don't ever do the same for the Nordic looking ones. You yourself are (supposedly) a Nordic looking Spaniard and I would imagine you wouldn't want someone accuse you of being adopted or of foreign background just because you are exotic. The guy I posted clearly has non-european influnce, but I think he's simply one of those ethnic Spaniards with higher than average moorish admixture, or at the very least it's showing up more than his European side for sure. Like Gallicus said, if you can find non-white looking people in the UK or even in Scandinavia, it shouldn't be a surprise that some ethnic Spaniards look non-white.

I am the first to say (and I have said it several times) that we have a 6-7% of ethnic Spaniards (like Busquets) that are non-White. But this guy has obvious non-Spanish appareance. While Busquets types are rare, more or less, we know someone that would have an acquitaince (or whatever it is written) that looks like Busquets. But, gypsy looking types, or pseudogypsy looking have a clear non-European look. We can find a Busquets type (a tiny minority) where I am from, but this guy would be easily spotted as either "foreign" or directly a gypsy.

Regarding what you say about nordid looking or dark looking. Considering that most nordid looking Spaniards are 100% Spanish since at least 500 years ago (all their ancestors, like mine are), you can´t say that a nordid looking is "foreign" unless you can prove it. So, the nordid component is part of the Spanish phenotype variation and part of our History, culture, and ethnogenesis (suebi, visigoths, vandals, franks, ... came to Spain and mixed like the Romans or other groups did). Even the CIA factsbook wrote about Spaniards: "a mix of Med + Nordic types" just until a few years ago. The gypsies arrived in 1400s, they are clearly of Indian ancestry, so "no-ethnic European" for them. The moros, despite all the trolls, were also a tiny minority and the mixing was negligible, and most (even those that were Spanish muslims) were kicked out. Even moriscos. So, there are no "moorish" Spaniards. And again, a germanic, nordic, med, alpine, Spaniard, is an European. A gypsy, or moorish person has extraEuropean admixture.

Even more, it is the gypsies the ones that auto-disgregate from society, so from a cultural point of view, most of them are a different society. We even tried to kick all of them out in 1700s, just search for "La Gran Redada", but it was not posible in the end. We would have saved lots of problems, millions of them.

[Gota_type_]

By the way, I also posted in the past very dark Spaniards that look completely European. Like this one (in fact, he looks like a modern versión of La Braña Mesolithic individual, and he is from that área):



Or this caveman:




I would never say that they look foreign, or gypsy, despite their looks are in a very minority number. And these kind of people (very dark individuals) are probably remains of what Europeans looked like 6000 years ago or so. So, pre-Indoeuropean people. All Europeans were dark just 6000 years ago, even people in Scandinavia or the British Isles. But anyone can say that despite being very dark they "look European". Anyone that is European can spot some non-Euro facial features even if I am checking an exotic looking Scandinavian or Brit or wherever. And also anyone that is European can say that someone is European despite their pigmentation being ligther or darker.

[Charlemagne7]

Regarding what you say about nordid looking or dark looking. Considering that most nordid looking Spaniards are 100% Spanish since at least 500 years ago (all their ancestors, like mine are), you can´t say that a nordid looking is "foreign" unless you can prove it. So, the nordid component is part of the Spanish phenotype variation and part of our History, culture, and ethnogenesis (suebi, visigoths, vandals, franks, ... came to Spain and mixed like the Romans or other groups did). Even the CIA factsbook wrote about Spaniards: "a mix of Med + Nordic types" just until a few years ago. The gypsies arrived in 1400s, they are clearly of Indian ancestry, so "no-ethnic European" for them. The moros, despite all the trolls, were also a tiny minority and the mixing was negligible, and most (even those that were Spanish muslims) were kicked out. Even moriscos. So, there are no "moorish" Spaniards. And again, a germanic, nordic, med, alpine, Spaniard, is an European. A gypsy, or moorish person has extraEuropean admixture.

Well, and I would argue that types like the one I posted and Busquets are a remnant of the moorish invasion of Spain and are part the Spanish phenotype, just like Nordid looking Spaniards are also a remnant of the Goths, Visigoths, etc. You can't have it both ways, you can't say on one hand argue that Nordic Spaniards are part of the Spanish phenotype and on other argue that the moorish looking ones are foreign, especially considering the fact that Iberians have anywhere from 2-10% North African admixture on average (depending on the region). So using your logic you also can't accuse them of being foreign unless you can prove it.

And finally, if you truly think people like Busquets are ethnic Spaniards, where do you think their phenotype came from if not from the Moorish conquest? You can't say it's because of the pre-Indoeuropeans or whatever because then you would have to explain why types like him are so much more frequent in Spain than in the rest of Europe (excluding other southern parts of Europe).

[XenophobicPrussian]

By the way, I also posted in the past very dark Spaniards that look completely European. Like this one (in fact, he looks like a modern versión of La Braña Mesolithic individual, and he is from that área):

Or this caveman:

Caveman in mesolithic Armenia maybe.

[Uranous]

By the way, I also posted in the past very dark Spaniards that look completely European. Like this one (in fact, he looks like a modern versión of La Braña Mesolithic individual, and he is from that área):



Or this caveman:




I would never say that they look foreign, or gypsy, despite their looks are in a very minority number. And these kind of people (very dark individuals) are probably remains of what Europeans looked like 6000 years ago or so. So, pre-Indoeuropean people. All Europeans were dark just 6000 years ago, even people in Scandinavia or the British Isles. But anyone can say that despite being very dark they "look European". Anyone that is European can spot some non-Euro facial features even if I am checking an exotic looking Scandinavian or Brit or wherever. And also anyone that is European can say that someone is European despite their pigmentation being ligther or darker.

La brana looks more Anson Mount

[Gallop]

Frank Cuesta can not even know what its color would be without the exposure to which it is subjected so being so it does not even seem dark to me.

[Defcon2]

Well, and I would argue that types like the one I posted and Busquets are a remnant of the moorish invasion of Spain and are part the Spanish phenotype, just like Nordid looking Spaniards are also a remnant of the Goths, Visigoths, etc. You can't have it both ways, you can't say on one hand argue that Nordic Spaniards are part of the Spanish phenotype and on other argue that the moorish looking ones are foreign, especially considering the fact that Iberians have anywhere from 2-10% North African admixture on average (depending on the region). So using your logic you also can't accuse them of being foreign unless you can prove it.

And finally, if you truly think people like Busquets are ethnic Spaniards, where do you think their phenotype came from if not from the Moorish conquest? You can't say it's because of the pre-Indoeuropeans or whatever because then you would have to explain why types like him are so much more frequent in Spain than in the rest of Europe (excluding other southern parts of Europe).

There is also no evidence that that phenotype comes from Moors or whatever, despite its really dark pigmentation it doesn't seem out of place to me.

[XenophobicPrussian]

La brana looks more Anson Mount

That's a hand drawn picture, not La Brana man. If La Brana man's look exists anymore it's probably going to be in Estonia, Lithuania, etc.

[Gallop]

Narf


David Suárez


Manel Loreiro

It is all very relative, they may look archaic in other photos may appear clearer, perhaps the European term has been attributed a more pseudo-Russian aspect. But what must have been the appearance in Europe in the Neolithic period onwards, I think that attributing ancestral aspects to the Moorish invasion in Spain is stupid because we forget the impossibility of mixed marriages due to religion, we forget the Reconquest and we forget that those who could have stayed at this time are already Spanish and their number could not have given another aspect to the Spanish because how many were really exotic, how many were actually natives of Iberia and finally there are North Africans that so little are so exotic so it makes no sense to search for Spaniards with a gypsy origin that they do not talk about or cases in which it is not possible to know what may be the real history of that person so exotic for the Spaniards themselves, the opinion of some foreigners is obviously based on socio-political aspects and current interests, in a surreptitious way but they are already more than obvious.

[Charlemagne7]

There is also no evidence that that phenotype comes from Moors or whatever, despite its really dark pigmentation it doesn't seem out of place to me.

Would you say that the guy I posted, although atypical, could still perfectly be an ethnic Spaniard?