Map of Europe showing WHG, Baltic HG, Yamnaya and Neolithic ancestry

[Dunai]

Bell beakers descend from Corded Ware, not Yamnaya. Corded Ware and Yamnaya were autosomally similar, but they had completely different Y-DNA, Yamnaya was exclusively R1b-Z2103, while Corded ware had R1a and R-l51. There's no explanation yet how this came to be.

So the Corded Ware culture are mainly the ancestors of almost all Eastern European people, since Eastern Europeans are largely R1a, while Western Europeans are R1b? I also read the Proto-Corded Ware language was the originator of Proto-Germanic and Proto-Balto-Slavic. Then from which waves of Yamnaya immigrants did Proto-Italic, Proto-Celtic, Proto-Greek, Proto-Albanian languages originate from, people who came after the Corded Ware or before them?

[Petalpusher]

Bell beakers descend from Corded Ware, not Yamnaya. Corded Ware and Yamnaya were autosomally similar, but they had completely different Y-DNA, Yamnaya was exclusively R1b-Z2103, while Corded ware had R1a and R-l51. There's no explanation yet how this came to be.

Yamnaya in the autosomal sense yes (which is what is tested there in the paper). We might just lack the samples from some earlier parralel groups in Yamnaya's vicinity that became more sucessful to create a progression initially towards CW, and then BB altogether.

[vbnetkhio]

So the Corded Ware culture are mainly the ancestors of almost all Eastern European people, since Eastern Europeans are largely R1a, while Western Europeans are R1b? I also read the Proto-Corded Ware language was the originator of Proto-Germanic and Proto-Balto-Slavic. Then from which waves of Yamnaya immigrants did Proto-Italic, Proto-Celtic, Proto-Greek, Proto-Albanian languages originate from, people who came after the Corded Ware or before them?

No, most of R1b is also from Corded ware.

The Yamnaya R1b-Z2103 is the "eastern R1b". It's only ancestral to Paleo-Balkanians and Anatolians.
https://cache.eupedia.com/images/con...-R1b-Z2103.png

Corded Ware had the "Slavic R1a", but also the "Western/Celto-Germanic" R1b-L51, and Indo-Iranic R1a-Z93. The later 2 were pushed out at one point, one went west and founded Bell Beaker, the other east and founded Fatyanovo.

Corded ware is supposed to descend from Yamnaya, but apparently there's an unpublished study in which the entire Yamnaya territory was thoroughly tested and they had only eastern R1b. And the areas around Yamnaya were populated by farmers and Hunter Gatherers as far as we know. So the origins of Corded Ware are still a puzzle.

[vbnetkhio]

Yamnaya in the autosomal sense yes (which is what is tested there in the paper). We might just lack the samples from some earlier parralel groups in Yamnaya's vicinity that became more sucessful to create a progression initially towards CW, and then BB altogether.

ok I understand, it's better to call that the "Steppe" component than "Yamnaya".

[Petalpusher]

ok I understand, it's better to call that the "Steppe" component than "Yamnaya".

Yeah agreed. That would be huge if that paper confirms the absence of other haplo in Yamnaya. That has puzzled me for a long time, because it is as it seems they were able to discriminate based on haplo, and not a very different one like E or N that may have or may not have looked visibly different. Which is something Rethel would do, but crazy in the real world of the time nonetheless. I still think we will finally find it somewhere, it can be very fringe and for some reasons had become more successful through some weird bottlenecks.

[Petalpusher]

dp

[Nurzat]

All of Italy's results are wrong on the map, or have been artificially moved to the 'north'.


Target: Italian_Campania
Distance: 1.4499% / 0.01449917
45.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
24.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
17.4 TUR_Barcin_N
5.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.6 Levant_PPNB
1.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
1.0 MAR_Taforalt
0.2 WHG



Target: Italian_Lazio
Distance: 1.8493% / 0.01849258
46.4 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
27.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
20.6 TUR_Barcin_N
2.8 WHG
2.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.8 Levant_PPNB
0.4 MAR_Taforalt



Target: Italian_Lombardy
Distance: 3.0906% / 0.03090609
51.0 TUR_Barcin_N
32.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
10.6 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
5.8 WHG

it's not Lazio, Campania and Lombardy, but averages of southern, central and northern Italy, it is also not about the 1% difference when such averages are made and some may consider different regions to include, it is about the general map of Europe on this, to see continent-wide tendencies, otherwise the individual results anyone can check since it's public data, so you are reading it wrong if you think the point was to have strict percentages with 1% error margin, it was not. also, the calculator itself needs improvement and I will think of an alternative version, once I read all input in this thread, which is very interesting and I am grateful for the quality input many members brought

[Kenshiro]

Target: Italian_Campania
Distance: 1.4499% / 0.01449917
45.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
24.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
17.4 TUR_Barcin_N
5.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.6 Levant_PPNB
1.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
1.0 MAR_Taforalt
0.2 WHG

Southern Italy is the textbook example of push and pull. Most of the Yamna is Italic or Germanic.

Target: Kenshiro_scaled
Distance: 2.1274% / 0.02127371
41.6 TUR_Barcin_N
30.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
16.6 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
6.0 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
2.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
2.0 Baltic_LVA_HG
0.6 MAR_Taforalt
0.4 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
This is mine from Gargano, northeast Apulia, on average i plot more with Greece and Albania and with central Italy than with the south, and on average i have 30/40% of Yamnaya and 0.5/3% WHG or EHG, plot between Crete and North Italy too
IMG_20220217_101850.jpg
Screenshot_2022-02-18-11-49-41-652_com.miui.gallery.jpg
Screenshot_2022-02-18-12-07-13-448_com.miui.gallery.jpg
I did not put the photo of the largest pca because it does not let me put it

[Nausevar]

Target: Nausevar_scaled
Distance: 0.0417% / 0.04166591
43.3 TUR_Barcin_N
36.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
11.2 Baltic_LVA_HG
9.1 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
0.4 Han


I don't know why the distance in percentage is 0.0417 instead of 4.17

[Gallop]

Target: Gallop_scaled
Distance: 0.0356% / 0.03558161
52.3 TUR_Barcin_N
29.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
13.6 WHG
4.9 MAR_Taforalt


Target: Father_scaled
Distance: 0.0336% / 0.03360163
52.8 TUR_Barcin_N
28.5 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
13.4 WHG
4.5 MAR_Taforalt
0.8 Ju_hoan_North




Target: Gallop_scaled
Distance: 0.0442% / 0.04416133 | ADC: 0.5x RC
41.9 TUR_Barcin_N
23.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
17.9 Baltic_LVA_HG
17.2 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N


Target: Father_scaled
Distance: 0.0430% / 0.04296762 | ADC: 0.5x RC
46.1 TUR_Barcin_N
22.9 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
17.8 Baltic_LVA_HG
13.2 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N



Target: Gallop_scaled
Distance: 0.0477% / 0.04767343 | ADC: 1x RC
61.7 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
20.8 Baltic_LVA_HG
17.5 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara


Target: Father_scaled
Distance: 0.0473% / 0.04729793 | ADC: 1x RC
62.2 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
21.0 Baltic_LVA_HG
16.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara