Dodecad k12b West & Central Asian results Vol 4.

[Aren]

Hello everyone. Leto, Kyp, Aren - I appreciate the work you're doing.
And I've learned that the original K12b spreadsheet had a lot of population groups with atypical average results?
In particular when it comes to the Caucasus scores among Assyrians, Mandeans and Armenians.
For instance, the Assyrian Caucasus score shouldn't be anywhere near as high as 52.2% and the North Euro score anywhere near as low as 0.9% even if you divide the group into North, South and West?
It seems the non-Beduin peoples of the Iranian Peninsula, Mesopotamia, East Anatolia, South Caucasus and the Levant aren't as distinctly different as the original Dodecad K12b spreadsheet could have you believe.

Are you/they still adding results from here to the Vahaduo updated K12b spreadsheet?
If so, I think you should only add those with known identity, in order to avoid skewed results due to confirmation bias.
The Turkmen_Iraq group seem to be based entirely on the Turkish-sounding names on the Iraq DNA project?
I think a big chunk of the individuals in those tests have known mixed ancestry, even if they have a Turkish, Kurdish, Christian or tribal Arabic name.
We also have to remember that just because someone is scoring like a Kurd_Kurmanji or Azerbaijani_Dagestan doesn't mean he identifies as such.
The results of randomly discovered kit numbers and K12b results of unknown individuals shouldn't be added to any of the population groups in my opinion.


These are my results. Kurd, Kermanshah province, Sunni.
Gedrosia: 25.74%
Siberian: 0.61%
NWAfrican: 1.16%
SEAsian: 0.35%
Atlantic-Med: 7.78%
North European: 8.42%
S Asian: 3.10%
E African: 0.73%
SW Asian: 14.41%
E Asian: 0.39%
Caucasus: 37.30%
Sub Saharan: 0.00%

In Vahaduo format:
Kurd_Kermanshah,25.74,0.61,1.16,0.35,8.42,7.78,3.1 0,0.73,14.41,0.39,37.30,0.00

This was an interesting result I came across. Not sure how common it is in that region, but it's a Kurd from Dohuk.
Gedrosia: 24.67%
Siberian: 0.81%
NWAfrican: 0.13%
SEAsian: 0.00%
Atlantic-Med: 9.55%
North European: 4.65%
S Asian: 0.81%
E African: 0.70%
SW Asian: 17.97%
E Asian: 0.97%
Caucasus: 39.54%
Sub Saharan: 0.21%

Kurd_Dohuk,24.67,0.81,0.13,0.00,9.55,4.65,0.81,0.7 0,17.97,0.97,39.54,0.21

Yes the Caucasus scores were inflated and the Atlantic-Med and to a lesser degree the North European were surpressed. These scores were not "wrong" per se, as the guy who created the Dodecad calculators included several Assyrians in his intial run and those kits still score like that with over 50% Caucasus but with other gedmatch calculators especially with Eurogenes their scores are similar to other Assyrians. The difference is due to the "calculator effect" which Dodecad suffers from but not Eurogenes.
Same thing applies to the Harappaworld calculator.

Assyrian_North,18.39,0.1,1.16,0.16,10.77,2.3,0.67, 0.09,19.02,0.11,47.22,0
Assyrian_South,17.88,0.14,1.52,0.19,10.92,2.02,0.7 4,0.28,19.27,0.17,46.83,0.02
Assyrian_West,17.46,0.09,1.42,0.13,11.51,2.31,0.47 ,0.17,19.11,0.11,47.21,0.02


What regions or subgroups do these refer to and where are the results taken from?
West = Syriac Orthodox from Mardin/Qamishli area?
South = Iraqi Chaldeans?
North = Urmia / Hakkari Nestorians?

It seems that the remarkable results of Sardinians, Basques, Iranian Lurs, Saudis and Assyrians in the old spreadsheets that are still circulating is partly due to seemingly mixed individuals being filtered out of the group in favor of the seemingly least mixed ones.
I can see how or why that would be useful or interesting, but it could also mislead people into thinking that's how average results look from those groups. I didn't for one second believe that the average Saudi will score only 0.30% Sub-Saharan, but the Assyrian average seemed plausible since it's a much smaller and more endogamic group.

@Aren
I think I read a post where you said you aren't motivated to post Assyrian results because you find them boring. If that's the case, then I have to strongly disagree with that.
I'm very interested in finding out how common it is for Assyrians to score over 50% Caucasus and less than 1% North Euro.
Please share with us more results from different denominations/towns if you have any.

Assyrian_West: Assyrians west of the Tigris river, mostly from Mardin and western Sirnak, but includes also several individuals with ancestry from Diyarbakir, Aleppo and Seert. Mostly Syriac Orthodox, substantial Syriac Catholic and Chaldean Catholic, some Church of the East/Nestorian
Assyrian_North: Assyrians east of the Tigris originally from Hakkari, eastern Sirnak, West Azerbaijan and northernmost Iraq north of Zakho, Amadiya and Rawanduz, some probably also with historical roots in Salmas and Van. Mostly Church of the East/Nestorians, substantial Chaldean Catholic, some Protestants.
Assyrian_South: Assyrians east of the Tigris from modern day Iraq, south of Zakho, Amadiya and Rawanduz. Mostly Chaldean Catholic, substantial amount of Syriac Orthodox and Syriac Catholic, some Protestants.

The difference between the old Assyrian average and how modern day Assyrians who upload to Gedmatch score is due to the calculator effect as I explained above, not due to mixed individuals. The same applies to the Saudi, Basque and most other averages who were part of the original run. The North Euro percentages as an example are inflated for most Northern and Eastern Europeans.

[Sterling Archer]

Half Azerbaijani, half Persian result. Azerbaijani side seems very Anatolian for some reason.

Gedrosia 24.72 Pct
Siberian 3.05 Pct
Northwest_African 0.09 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 11.01 Pct
North_European 7.93 Pct
South_Asian 1.79 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 9.75 Pct
East_Asian 3 Pct
Caucasus 37.59 Pct
Sub_Saharan 1.09 Pct

Distance to: Aze_Pers
5.28315247 Azerbaijani_Iran
5.50478882 Azerbaijani_Republic
5.83648867 Azerbaijani_Turkey
6.37211896 Kurd_Kurmanji
6.70033581 Yazidi_Kurd
7.64143965 Talysh_Azerbaijan
7.91806163 Turk_Southeast
8.26606315 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
8.34480078 Kurd_Sorani
9.22199545 Turkmen_Iraq
9.39399276 Iranian_Lur
9.84837042 Iranian_Fars
9.89357873 Kurd_Feyli
9.95090951 Turk_Central_East
10.08096226 Iranian_Khorasan
10.30033495 Turk_South
10.38738658 Udi_Azerbaijan
11.08545894 Iranian_Kerman
11.09348007 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
11.11754919 Turk_East
11.34928632 Turk_Central_West
13.09048509 Turk_Southwest
13.30034586 Turk_West_BlackSea
13.32982370 Iranian_Mazandaran
13.91891878 Iraqi_Baghdad

Distance to: Aze_Pers
3.82240628 49.60% Iranian_Mazandaran + 50.40% Turk_Southwest
3.89717921 9.40% Spanish_Basque + 90.60% Talysh_Azerbaijan
4.04569011 53.40% Iranian_Mazandaran + 46.60% Turk_Northwest
4.04816625 50.00% Iranian_Mazandaran + 50.00% Turk_West_BlackSea
4.06372022 9.80% French_Southwest + 90.20% Talysh_Azerbaijan
4.07275035 45.40% Iranian_Mazandaran + 54.60% Turk_Central_West
4.15310387 10.80% Spanish_Asturias + 89.20% Talysh_Azerbaijan
4.15634098 10.40% Spanish_La_Rioja + 89.60% Talysh_Azerbaijan
4.20899539 10.80% Spanish_Aragon + 89.20% Talysh_Azerbaijan
4.21150208 87.80% Azerbaijani_Turkey + 12.20% Balochi
4.21991516 10.60% Spanish_Cantabria + 89.40% Talysh_Azerbaijan
4.24240307 11.00% Spanish_Andalusia + 89.00% Talysh_Azerbaijan
4.30980071 11.20% Spanish_Valencia + 88.80% Talysh_Azerbaijan
4.31563400 11.00% Spanish_Catalonia + 89.00% Talysh_Azerbaijan
4.32520280 11.00% Spanish_Galicia + 89.00% Talysh_Azerbaijan
4.32588705 58.00% Armenian_West + 42.00% Tajik_Mountain
4.34910700 11.20% Spanish_Castilla-Leon + 88.80% Talysh_Azerbaijan
4.39872870 11.40% Spanish_Baleares + 88.60% Talysh_Azerbaijan
4.45483212 85.00% Azerbaijani_Turkey + 15.00% Iranian_Bandari
4.47518911 29.40% Crimean_Tatar_Mountain + 70.60% Iranian_Lur
4.47698012 70.60% Azerbaijani_Turkey + 29.40% Iranian_Khorasan
4.48022148 11.40% Portuguese + 88.60% Talysh_Azerbaijan
4.48726604 73.00% Azerbaijani_Turkey + 27.00% Iranian_Kerman
4.53048524 25.40% Turk_Northwest + 74.60% Yazidi_Kurd
4.53253362 28.60% Turk_Southwest + 71.40% Yazidi_Kurd

Target: Aze_Pers
Distance: 1.6540% / 1.65401916 | R4P
45.1 Iranian_Mazandaran
40.6 Udi_Azerbaijan
9.2 Spanish_Basque
5.1 Negidal

[Arzanene]

Armenian from Derik Province in Diyarbakir Turkey. Dodecad k12 gedmatch results

updated vahaduo results
derik1.PNG

Gedrosia 16.29
Siberian 0.23
Northwest_African 0.62
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 12.66
North_European 3.64
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 18
East_Asian 1.25
Caucasus 47.1
Sub_Saharan 0.2

1 Uzbekistan_Jews_Behar @ 6.952974
2 Assyrian_Dodecad @ 7.048021
3 Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar @ 7.312299
4 Georgia_Jews_Behar @ 7.474526
5 Iraq_Jews_Behar @ 8.692334
6 Iranian_Jews_Behar @ 9.061040
7 Armenian_Dodecad @ 10.033321
8 Turks_Behar @ 10.110106
9 Druze_HGDP @ 10.132220
10 Armenians_15_Yunusbayev @ 10.599319
11 Turkish_Dodecad @ 10.797203
12 Lebanese_Behar @ 10.942459
13 Cypriots_Behar @ 13.464595
14 Syrians_Behar @ 14.525302
15 Kurds_Yunusbayev @ 15.233806
16 Armenians_Behar @ 15.425196
17 Kurd_Dodecad @ 16.377344
18 Jordanians_Behar @ 17.009380
19 Iranian_Dodecad @ 17.532185
20 Palestinian_HGDP @ 19.807985

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Iraq_Jews_Behar +50% Turkish_Dodecad @ 2.762195


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Assyrian_Dodecad +25% Sephardic_Jews_Behar +25% Uzbekistan_Jews_Behar @ 2.079935


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++
1 Armenians_15_Yunusbayev + Iranian_Jews_Behar + Iranian_Jews_Behar + S_Italian_Sicilian_Dodecad @ 1.985641
2 Armenian_Dodecad + Cypriots_Behar + Kurds_Yunusbayev + Syrians_Behar @ 2.028992
3 Assyrian_Dodecad + Cypriots_Behar + Druze_HGDP + Kurd_Dodecad @ 2.077192
4 Assyrian_Dodecad + Assyrian_Dodecad + Sephardic_Jews_Behar + Uzbekistan_Jews_Behar @ 2.079935
5 Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar + Cypriots_Behar + Druze_HGDP + Kurd_Dodecad @ 2.102842
6 Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar + Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar + Iranian_Jews_Behar + S_Italian_Sicilian_Dodecad @ 2.103858

[Arzanene]

Armenian from Dersim, Turkey Dodecad k12 gedmatch results.

updated Vahaduo results
Dersim1.PNG

Gedrosia 15.81
Siberian 0.67
Northwest_African 0.9
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 11.83
North_European 2.86
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 17.53
East_Asian -
Caucasus 50.41
Sub_Saharan -

1 Assyrian_Dodecad @ 4.620466
2 Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar @ 4.869308
3 Georgia_Jews_Behar @ 5.163907
4 Armenian_Dodecad @ 6.826284
5 Armenians_15_Yunusbayev @ 7.637541
6 Uzbekistan_Jews_Behar @ 8.230127
7 Iranian_Jews_Behar @ 8.331093
8 Iraq_Jews_Behar @ 8.770941
9 Druze_HGDP @ 9.490332
10 Turks_Behar @ 11.017267
11 Turkish_Dodecad @ 11.753623
12 Armenians_Behar @ 12.428290
13 Lebanese_Behar @ 12.894219
14 Cypriots_Behar @ 13.467872
15 Kurds_Yunusbayev @ 16.684258
16 Syrians_Behar @ 16.733597
17 Kurd_Dodecad @ 18.031271
18 Jordanians_Behar @ 18.843891
19 Iranian_Dodecad @ 19.031963
20 Samaritians_Behar @ 19.595648

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenian_Dodecad +50% Iraq_Jews_Behar @ 3.687993


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar +25% Cypriots_Behar +25% Uzbekistan_Jews_Behar @ 1.104997


Using 4 populations approximation:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Armenians_15_Yunusbayev + Assyrian_Dodecad + Cypriots_Behar + Uzbekistan_Jews_Behar @ 0.915144
2 Armenian_Dodecad + Assyrian_Dodecad + Cypriots_Behar + Uzbekistan_Jews_Behar @ 0.924305
3 Armenian_Dodecad + Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar + Cypriots_Behar + Uzbekistan_Jews_Behar @ 1.015692
4 Armenians_15_Yunusbayev + Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar + Cypriots_Behar + Uzbekistan_Jews_Behar @ 1.072118
5 Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar + Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar + Cypriots_Behar + Uzbekistan_Jews_Behar @ 1.104997
6 Assyrian_Dodecad + Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar + Cypriots_Behar + Uzbekistan_Jews_Behar @ 1.164992

[Arzanene]

Armenian from The region of Palu in Elazig Turkey.

palu1.PNG

Gedrosia 16.88 Pct
Siberian -
Northwest_African 0.65 Pct
Southeast_Asian 0.37 Pct
Atlantic_Med 12.37 Pct
North_European 3.43 Pct
South_Asian 0.66 Pct
East_African 0.14 Pct
Southwest_Asian 14.88 Pct
East_Asian -
Caucasus 50.62 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

1 Armenian (Dodecad) 5.19
2 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 5.24
3 Assyrian (Dodecad) 5.57
4 Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) 5.85
5 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 6.14
6 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 7.98
7 Turks (Behar) 9.27
8 Iranian_Jews (Behar) 9.75
9 Turkish (Dodecad) 9.83
10 Armenians (Behar) 9.83
11 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 10.68
12 Druze (HGDP) 11.22
13 Cypriots (Behar) 13.12
14 Lebanese (Behar) 13.7
15 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 14.32
16 Kurd (Dodecad) 15.63
17 Iranian (Dodecad) 16.34
18 Syrians (Behar) 17.49
19 Iranians (Behar) 19.18
20 Jordanians (Behar) 19.54

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 81.5% Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) + 18.5% Morocco_Jews (Behar) @ 1.93
2 85% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 15% Greek (Dodecad) @ 1.97
3 87.9% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 12.1% Tuscan (HGDP) @ 1.97
4 86.8% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 13.2% C_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.01
5 88.5% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 11.5% TSI30 (Metspalu) @ 2.06
6 87.8% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 12.2% O_Italian (Dodecad)

[Arzanene]

Armenian whose family on all sides came from Ayntab/Gaziantep province in Turkey. Gedmatch Dodecad k12 results

ayntab.PNG

Gedrosia 18.09
Siberian 0.15
Northwest_African 1.32
Southeast_Asian 0.2
Atlantic_Med 12.65
North_European 2.11
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 15.89
East_Asian 0.22
Caucasus 49.38
Sub_Saharan -

1 Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar @ 5.188505
2 Assyrian_Dodecad @ 5.431397
3 Georgia_Jews_Behar @ 6.907984
4 Armenian_Dodecad @ 7.420041
5 Uzbekistan_Jews_Behar @ 7.721779
6 Armenians_15_Yunusbayev @ 7.943377
7 Iranian_Jews_Behar @ 9.115218
8 Iraq_Jews_Behar @ 10.018050
9 Turks_Behar @ 10.787576
10 Turkish_Dodecad @ 11.733235
11 Druze_HGDP @ 11.926336
12 Armenians_Behar @ 12.853966
13 Lebanese_Behar @ 14.069311
14 Kurds_Yunusbayev @ 14.849440
15 Cypriots_Behar @ 14.916783
16 Kurd_Dodecad @ 16.102022
17 Iranian_Dodecad @ 17.116337
18 Syrians_Behar @ 17.880110
19 Jordanians_Behar @ 19.914736
20 Iranians_Behar @ 19.933529

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenian_Dodecad +50% Uzbekistan_Jews_Behar @ 4.347747


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar +25% Cypriots_Behar +25% Kurds_Yunusbayev @ 2.229026


Using 4 populations approximation:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Armenian_Dodecad + Assyrian_Dodecad + Cypriots_Behar + Kurd_Dodecad @ 2.025052
2 Armenian_Dodecad + Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar + Cypriots_Behar + Kurd_Dodecad @ 2.046791
3 Armenian_Dodecad + Assyrian_Dodecad + Cypriots_Behar + Iranians_Behar @ 2.130150
4 Armenian_Dodecad + Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar + Cypriots_Behar + Iranians_Behar @ 2.211229

[Arzanene]

Armenian from Kharbert/Elazig province of Turkey. Gedmatch results dodecad k12

with Vahaduo updated results

elazig1.PNG

Gedrosia 14.9 Pct
Siberian -
Northwest_African 0.68 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 14 Pct
North_European 2.92 Pct
South_Asian 1.12 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 15.81 Pct
East_Asian 0.07 Pct
Caucasus 50.47 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

[Arzanene]

Armenian from the village of Cibin/Jibin in the region of Şanlıurfa or Edessa in Turkey. Dodecad k12 results gedmatch western armenian

Gedrosia 16.39 Pct
Siberian 1.13 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 13.61 Pct
North_European 5.94 Pct
South_Asian 0.49 Pct
East_African 0.68 Pct
Southwest_Asian 15.03 Pct
East_Asian -
Caucasus 46.73 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

with updated vahaduo calculator

cibin1.PNG

[Arzanene]

Another Armenian from Dersim. from a prominent feudal lord family in the region.

dersim2.PNG

Gedrosia 18.01 Pct
Siberian -
Northwest_African 0.9 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 12.72 Pct
North_European 3.35 Pct
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 15.81 Pct
East_Asian -
Caucasus 49.19 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

[Arzanene]

You seem to love low Mongoloid Azerbaijanis. I mean that individual is only fucking 2 percent.

Zaqata, Sheki, Oguz, Gabala, qakhi and that general area was inhabited by Udi, Lekids, Tsakhurs, Ingiloy and other ethnic groups who belonged to either the Armenian church or the Chalcedonian Georgian Church. the area experienced a massive conversion to islam during the 1700s when the Sheki khanate was established and high taxation was issued. so they are mostly native converts.

and Apparently from the results posted here The core Shirvani Azeris seem to be Iranians somewhat admixed with Turkmen and some with Anatolian greek probably due to Shia Turkish qizilbash refugees who moved to safavid Iran from Anatolia. and north Caucasus admixture. the Iranian population of Shirvan assimilated into Turkic culture and language.

and Western Azeris beyond the kura River they seem to be Armenian +Turkmen + Iranian. probably a mixovarvaroi type of situation happened In Utik province around the 15th century when Timur settled the turkmen in the region who mixed with the Armenians.

while the northern provinces around dagestan seem to be a mix of Iranians and Dagestani groups.