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Bhai can I share some of these thakuri results on my FB page. I don't want to without your consent. It is always a good online etiquette to request.
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I wonder Tharu results a lot. Cus Harappaworld say they're only 7% Mongoloid but their phenotypes look very Tibetan![]()
Ask Sora: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...-Sora-anything
My MyHeritage & Gedmatch results:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...dmatch-results
Originally Posted by Dr_Maul
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True indeed. The Maithil Bihari Brahmins are same as Eastern Uttar Pradesh Brahmins.
Spoiler!
No problem at all. I posted these kits for all of you enthusiast guys. The Shahi kit is mixed, so better not to post the Shahi.
Tharus are half Tibetan half South Asian. Some are mixed with Gangetic folks, so the East Asian is reduced in them. A typical Tharu shows East Asian features a lot.
Spoiler!
Tharu average is 60 percent Chokhopani/Tibetan and rest 40 percent South Asian.
Target: Tharu
Distance: 2.7037% / 0.02703749
60.8 NPL_Chokhopani_2700BP
39.2 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3
Last edited by Kaazi; 10-29-2021 at 01:18 PM.
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Academic Tharu average for Dodecad
Quite strongly Mongoloid, basically half. I didn't know this tribe/ethnic group.Code:Tharu,15.85,4.64,0.19,10.28,0.34,2.39,31.17,0.00,0.13,34.60,0.41,0.00
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Chhetri (Karki)
Kit FW5124484
# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 29.18
2 NE-Asian 26.87
3 Baloch 22.32
4 Siberian 6.38
5 NE-Euro 5.06
6 SE-Asian 4.42
7 Caucasian 2.62
8 Mediterranean 1.52
9 Beringian 1.03
10 Papuan 0.6
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 nepalese-c (xing) 7.54
2 hazara (hgdp) 25.88
3 nepalese-b (xing) 26
4 uyghur (hgdp) 26.55
5 bengali (harappa) 26.91
6 burusho (hgdp) 27.55
7 nepalese-a (xing) 27.57
8 up-muslim (harappa) 28.22
9 khasi (chaubey) 28.93
10 bengali-brahmin (harappa) 28.96
11 bihari-muslim (harappa) 29.29
12 kashmiri (harappa) 29.3
13 uzbek (behar) 29.82
14 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 29.87
15 punjabi (harappa) 30.46
16 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 30.94
17 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 31.01
18 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 31.12
19 cochin-jew (behar) 31.22
20 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 31.28
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 63.5% up-kshatriya (metspalu) + 36.5% japanese (hgdp) @ 1.98
2 65.7% bihari-muslim (harappa) + 34.3% japanese (hgdp) @ 2.12
3 63.9% karnataka-brahmin (harappa) + 36.1% japanese (hgdp) @ 2.44
4 63.9% vaish (reich) + 36.1% japanese (hgdp) @ 2.46
5 63.1% meghawal (reich) + 36.9% japanese (hgdp) @ 2.63
6 66% bengali-brahmin (harappa) + 34% japanese (hgdp) @ 2.68
7 63.7% maharashtrian (harappa) + 36.3% japanese (hgdp) @ 2.77
8 61.9% up-kshatriya (metspalu) + 38.1% tu (hgdp) @ 2.88
9 64.2% bihari-muslim (harappa) + 35.8% tu (hgdp) @ 2.93
10 62.7% iyengar-brahmin (harappa) + 37.3% japanese (hgdp) @ 2.98
11 61.6% karnataka-brahmin (harappa) + 38.4% xibo (hgdp) @ 3.09
12 62.3% karnataka-brahmin (harappa) + 37.7% tu (hgdp) @ 3.11
13 60.5% ap-brahmin (xing) + 39.5% xibo (hgdp) @ 3.14
14 61% gujarati (harappa) + 39% xibo (hgdp) @ 3.17
15 60.3% iyer-brahmin (harappa) + 39.7% xibo (hgdp) @ 3.2
16 63.3% gujarati (harappa) + 36.7% japanese (hgdp) @ 3.24
17 60.4% iyengar-brahmin (harappa) + 39.6% xibo (hgdp) @ 3.24
18 62.8% ap-brahmin (xing) + 37.2% japanese (hgdp) @ 3.25
19 64.5% bengali-brahmin (harappa) + 35.5% tu (hgdp) @ 3.26
20 61.5% meghawal (reich) + 38.5% tu (hgdp) @ 3.27
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Thats why you can’t rely on any calculator for total Mongoloid.
You’ve already seen how 23andme is able to make Turks 0 mongoloid.
We can even make Kazakh 0 mongoloid if we want. All we have to do is make 1 component Chinese Han and the 2nd component Central Asian. We can make Kazakh score near 0 E. Asian and near 100% C. Asian
If we want to make Kurds 0 Mongoloid all we have to do is make one component Caucasian and the other W.Asian since we know Kurds have alot of ancestry from there and will score nearly 100% Caucasian and W. Asian. This way their E. Asian will be forced to zero. If we want to make Kurds very mongoloid we don’t use any Caucasian or W. Asian. Instead we use African and W. European. This way they’ll score high E. Asian
If we want to make Turks 0 mongoloid we should use a Balkan and W Asian and Greek components. If we want to make Turks very mongoloid we leave out Balkan, W. Asian and Greek components.
So you may ask how do we know how mongoloid a person is? The only way I know is to do one to one comparison of person with E. Asians and Siberians and count how many genes they match with the oerson in IBS. If you do this the mystery of why some west Asians have Mongoloid phenotype but score a little mongoloid on calculators will be largely solved
Muzh ba staso la tyaro tsakha ra wubaasu
[IMG][/IMG]
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I came up with a new way to estimate the amount of Mongoloid ancestry. I'm using qpGraph to model populations as a combination of the common ancestor of two Caucasoid populations and the common ancestor of two Mongoloid populations:
Result:Code:library(admixtools) library(tidyverse) p1=c("Lithuanian","Sardinian") p2=c("Mongol","Han") p3=c("Tharu","Finnish","Kurd","Kazakh","Russia_HG_Karelia","Turkey_N","Italy_North_Villabruna_HG","Russia_Samara_EBA_Yamnaya","Sherpa","Newar","Bahun","Rai","Tamang","Gurung","Magar","Japanese","Enets","Nganasan","French","Uyghur") f2=f2_from_geno("v50.0_HO_public",pops=c(p1,p2,p3),maxmiss=1) res=sapply(p3,function(x){ tree=rbind(c("R","A"),c("R","B"),c("A","C"),c("B","C"),cbind("A",p1),cbind("B",p2),c("C",x)) gr=qpgraph(f2,tree) w=(gr$edges%>%filter(from=="B"&to=="C"))$weight list(w,gr$score) })%>%apply(1,unlist) res=res[order(res[,1]),] paste(sprintf("%.1f",100*res[,1]),rownames(res),round(res[,2]))%>%writeLines # x="Tharu" # tree=rbind(c("R","A"),c("R","B"),c("A","C"),c("B","C"),cbind("A",p1),cbind("B",p2),c("C",x)) # gr=qpgraph(f2,tree) # plot_graph(gr$edges) # ggsave("1.png",width=4,height=4)
0.0 Turkey_N 2144
0.0 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG 1311
0.5 French 1616
6.9 Finnish 1312
8.8 Kurd 1444
9.6 Russia_Samara_EBA_Yamnaya 1463
19.9 Russia_HG_Karelia 1454
39.1 Bahun 1345
55.7 Uyghur 1303
61.9 Newar 1949
66.2 Tharu 1816
70.2 Kazakh 1195
85.7 Tamang 2273
86.7 Magar 2257
86.8 Enets 1531
91.1 Gurung 2281
93.9 Rai 2231
97.0 Sherpa 2034
100.0 Japanese 3110
100.0 Nganasan 2433
For example the model for Tharu used a graph like this:
![]()
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I like your open thinking and skills but to be fair to our E. European friends since they also have some Siberian and E. Asian ancestry I wouldn’t use Lithuanians as proxy for W. Eurasian. Use something that you’re more sure that doesn’t have any Siberian or E. Asian. Maybe some W. African population as non mongoloid proxy
To be even more fair also use Siberian as Mongoloid and use a couple of different W. and E. Asian proxies and average the results
You can also try Basque as a W. Eurasian proxy. You can also do one run with 1000G only, the other with Simmons only since results will be different because they use different SNPs.
Ideally you want to use whole genomes to reduce bias but I don’t know if you can find whole genomes for many ethnicities
Last edited by Zoro; 10-30-2021 at 12:02 AM.
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The results don't change that much if you add more references. I also tried to use Serbia_IronGates_Mesolithic and Turkey_N as the Caucasoid references, but for some reason it caused Finns to get only 3% Mongoloid ancestry.
Another dead simple method to estimate the percentage of Mongoloid ancestry of is to first do a PCA of Eurasian populations, and to then apply min-max scaling to PC1 so the smallest value becomes 0 and the largest value becomes 100. It gave the figure of 66% for Tharu, which is exactly the same as the result of my qpGraph model:
Code:$ wget https://reichdata.hms.harvard.edu/pub/datasets/amh_repo/curated_releases/V50/V50.0/SHARE/public.dir/v50.0_HO_public.{anno,ind,snp,geno} $ f=v50.0_HO_public;convertf -p <(printf %s\\n genotypename:\ $f.geno snpname:\ $f.snp indivname:\ $f.ind outputformat:\ PACKEDPED genotypeoutname:\ $f.bed snpoutname:\ $f.bim indivoutname:\ $f.fam) $ igno()(grep -Ev '\.REF|rel\.|fail\.|\.contam|Ignore_|_dup|_contam|_lc|_father|_mother|_son|_daughter|_brother|_sister|_relative|_sibling|_twin|Neanderthal|Denisova|Vindija_light|Gorilla|Macaque|Marmoset|Orangutan|Primate_Chimp|hg19ref') $ printf %s\\n AA Aleut Algerian Australian BantuKenya BantuSA BantuSA_Ovambo Biaka Bolivian Canary_Islander Datog Egyptian Eritrea Esan Ethiopia_BetaIsrael Gambian Hadza1 IBS_CanaryIslands Jew_Ethiopian Jew_Moroccan Jew_Tunisian Ju_hoan_North Karitiana Khomani Kikuyu Libyan Luhya Luo Malawi_Chewa Malawi_Ngoni Malawi_Tumbuka Malawi_Yao Mandenka Masai Mayan Mbuti Mende Mixe Mixtec Moroccan Mozabite Namibia_Bantu_Herero Nasioi Papuan Piapoco Pima Quechua Saharawi Somali Surui Tlingit Tunisian YRI Yemeni Yemeni_Desert2 Yoruba Zapotec>noneurasia $ x=eurasia;awk -F\\t '$5==0&&$7!~/\./{print$2,$7}' v50.0_HO_public.anno|igno|grep -v _o|awk 'NR==FNR{a[$0];next}!($2 in a)' noneurasia ->$x.pick $ plink --bfile v50.0_HO_public --keep <(awk 'NR==FNR{a[$1];next}$2 in a' $x.pick v50.0_HO_public.fam) --make-bed --out $x $ plink --bfile $x --indep-pairwise 50 10 .1 --maf --out $x;plink --bfile $x --extract $x.prune.in --make-bed --out $x.p $ plink --bfile $x.p --pca 20 --out $x $ awk 'NR==FNR{a[$1]=$2;next}{p=a[$2];s[p]+=$3;n[p]++}END{for(i in s)print s[i]/n[i],i}' $x.{pick,eigenvec}|awk '{if(NR==1||$1>max)max=$1;if(NR==1||min>$1)min=$1;a[NR]=$1;n[NR]=$2}END{for(i=1;i<=NR;i++)print 100*(a[i]-min)/(max-min),n[i]}'|sort -n|awk '{$1=sprintf("%.0f",$1)}1' 0 Sardinian 0 Italian_Sardinian 2 Spanish_Lleida 2 Spanish_North 2 Basque 3 Italian_North 3 Cypriot 3 Spanish 3 Sicilian 3 Jew_Turkish 3 Italian_South 3 BedouinB 3 Jew_Libyan 3 Lebanese_Christian 3 Jew_Yemenite 3 Greek 4 Jew_Iraqi 4 Druze 4 Maltese 4 French 4 English 4 Albanian 4 Yemeni_Northwest 4 Yemeni_Highlands 4 Yemeni_Desert 4 Armenian_Hemsheni 4 Saudi 4 Croatian 4 Jew_Ashkenazi 4 Armenian 4 Moldavian 5 Lebanese_Muslim 5 Romanian 5 Bulgarian 5 Palestinian 5 Scottish 5 Assyrian 5 Orcadian 5 Gagauz 5 Icelandic 5 Georgian 5 Czech 5 Norwegian 5 Jew_Iranian 5 Jew_Georgian 5 BedouinA 6 Jordanian 6 Lebanese 6 Hungarian 6 Syrian 6 Lithuanian 6 Yemeni_Highlands_Raymah 6 Ukrainian_North 6 Ukrainian 7 Abkhasian 7 Belarusian 7 Russia_Abkhasian 8 Estonian 8 Kurd 8 Kaitag 8 Ezid 8 Kubachinian 9 Darginian 9 Chechen 9 Tabasaran 9 Lezgin 9 Avar 9 Lak 9 Russian 10 Ingushian 10 Adygei 10 Iranian 10 Turkish 11 Kumyk 11 Azeri 11 Ossetian 12 Circassian 12 Finnish 12 Russia_NorthOssetian 12 Mordovian 12 Balkar 13 Karachai 13 Iranian_Bandari 13 Karelian 13 Russian_Archangelsk_Krasnoborsky 13 Kabardinian 13 Abazin 14 Veps 15 Makrani 16 Russian_Archangelsk_Pinezhsky 17 Brahui 17 Turkish_Balikesir 17 Balochi 18 Russian_Archangelsk_Leshukonsky 19 Tatar_Mishar 20 Kalash 22 Pathan 22 Tajik 23 Tatar_Kazan 24 Sindhi_Pakistan 25 GujaratiA 25 Jew_Cochin 25 Chuvash 26 Besermyan 27 Nogai_Karachay_Cherkessia 29 GujaratiB 29 Udmurt 30 Burusho 31 GujaratiC 32 GujaratiD 34 Punjabi 34 Bashkir 36 Turkmen 39 Uzbek 41 BEB 42 Bahun 45 Yukagir_Forest 46 Tatar_Siberian 47 Nogai_Stavropol 49 Tatar_Siberian_Zabolotniye 50 Mansi 52 Nogai_Astrakhan 52 Uyghur 53 Hazara 53 Karakalpak 54 Altaian_Chelkan 58 Tubalar 59 Shor_Mountain 60 Shor_Khakassia 60 Kazakh 62 Selkup 63 Newar 63 Even 63 Khakass 63 Kyrgyz_Tajikistan 64 Ket 65 Kyrgyz_Kyrgyzstan 66 Tharu 67 Kyrgyz_China 69 Khakass_Kachin 69 Altaian 70 Enets 71 Kazakh_China 73 Kusunda 77 Kalmyk 78 Tuvinian 78 Evenk_FarEast 78 Tofalar 80 Dolgan 80 Todzin 81 Mongol 81 Eskimo_Naukan 81 Tamang 81 Buryat 82 Eskimo_ChaplinSireniki 82 Yakut 82 Burmese 83 Eskimo_Sireniki 83 Dongxiang 83 Magar 83 Malay 83 Chukchi 83 Khamnegan 83 Thai 84 Chukchi1 84 Dungan 84 Itelmen 85 Cambodian 85 Koryak 86 Yukagir_Tundra 86 Gurung 86 Salar 87 Evenk_Transbaikal 87 Nganasan 88 Tagalog 89 Tu 89 Visayan 90 Rai 91 Bonan 91 Mongola 91 Sherpa 91 Daur 92 Dusun 92 Oroqen 92 Xibo 92 Tibetan 92 Yugur 92 Ilocano 93 Hezhen 93 Murut 93 Tibetan_Yunnan 93 Ulchi 93 Nivh 93 China_Lahu 93 Negidal 93 Kinh 94 Naxi 94 Vietnamese 94 Dai 94 Nanai 94 Yi 94 Atayal 94 Japanese 95 Ami 95 Kankanaey 95 Zhuang 95 Miao 95 Gelao 96 Han 96 Tujia 96 Korean 96 She 96 Qiang 96 Maonan 98 Dong 98 Mulam 100 Li
Last edited by Komintasavalta; 10-30-2021 at 12:46 AM.
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Although you’re on the right track you’re still far from the truth. To get to the truth you can’t use PCA programs or Admixture, you have to use gene to gene IBS comparison?
How do I know you’re still far away from the truth? Simply because I’ve done IBS and when I did Baloch and Kalash had less similarity with Mongols than Kurds. Whereas here you show Kurds 8.1 and Kalash 20.0
Try Plink IBS (—genome flag) one to one with Mongol and post list
Once you do IBS list you can normalize results by assigning top pop Han or Mongol 100% and bottom pop Yoruba as 0
Last edited by Zoro; 10-30-2021 at 01:09 AM.
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