Who, genetically, are the least Slavic of the Slavs?

[Jana]

I think the Slavic ancestry of Balkanians is Polish-like.

Distance to:	AV1_Hungary_Avar_1361_ybp
2.51037846	Ukrainian_Galicia
3.35052235	South_Polish
3.92331492	Polish_Silesia
4.01662794	Polish_Southeast
4.34316705	Moldova_Ukrainian

Distance to:	AV2_Hungary_Szolad_540_640_AD_540_640_AD_
1.75171345	Polish_Kuyavia
2.86347691	Polish
3.05216317	Polish_Kujawy
3.74654508	Polish_Mazovia
3.98610085	Polish_Mazovia

Global25

Target: Croatian
Distance: 0.0049% / 0.00492042 | R2P
70.4	Polish
29.6	Italian_Umbria

Target: Serbian
Distance: 0.0132% / 0.01321084 | R2P
68.5	Ukrainian_Lviv
31.5	Greek_Kos

Target: Serbian
Distance: 0.0080% / 0.00799395 | R3P
42.5	Lithuanian_RA
32.6	Italian_Lombardy
24.9	Greek_Kos

Eurogenes K13

Target: Croat
Distance: 0.4453% / 0.44529358 | R3P
40.2	Polish_Mazovia
33.5	Italian_Marche
26.3	Polish_Lesser_Poland

Target: Croat_East
Distance: 0.8081% / 0.80807037 | R3P
41.8	Polish_Lesser_Poland
32.1	Polish_Southeast
26.1	Greek_Cyclades

Target: Croat_North
Distance: 0.3585% / 0.35851164 | R3P
60.9	Polish_Mazovia
20.5	Italian_Marche
18.6	French_Alsace

Target: Croat_South
Distance: 0.5159% / 0.51585104 | R3P
56.8	Polish_Mazovia
24.0	Italian_Veneto
19.2	Greek_Crete

Target: Croat_West
Distance: 0.5427% / 0.54269622 | R3P
53.8	Polish_Staropolska
37.3	Italian_Trentino
8.9	Greek_Trabzon

Target: Serb
Distance: 0.7919% / 0.79194004 | R3P
62.5	South_Polish
29.3	Greek_Crete
8.2	Italian_Sardinia

Target: Serb_Bosnia
Distance: 0.9707% / 0.97069809 | R3P
66.4	Polish_Silesia
27.7	Greek_Crete
5.9	Italian_Sardinia

Target: Serb_Croatia
Distance: 0.7934% / 0.79338749 | R3P
50.5	Belarusian_Minsk
32.6	Italian_Lombardy
16.9	Greek_Cappadocian

Target: Serb_Herzegovina
Distance: 0.6890% / 0.68900115 | R3P
57.2	Polish_Lesser_Poland
34.5	Greek_Crete
8.3	Italian_Sardinia

Target: Serb_Serbia_Central
Distance: 0.8899% / 0.88993271 | R3P
43.5	Belarusian_Minsk
28.8	Greek_Crete
27.7	Italian_Trentino

Target: Serb_Serbia_South
Distance: 0.6107% / 0.61066313 | R3P
47.3	Belarusian_Minsk
31.3	Greek_Chios
21.4	Italian_Lombardy

Target: Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina
Distance: 0.8595% / 0.85949676 | R3P
60.7	South_Polish
30.6	Greek_Crete
8.7	Italian_Sardinia

Target: Serb_Serbia_West
Distance: 0.8380% / 0.83800140 | R3P
65.3	South_Polish
24.4	Greek_Chios
10.3	Italian_Sardinia

Target: Serb_Southern_Montenegro
Distance: 0.8541% / 0.85412427 | R3P
49.3	Polish_Silesia
46.2	Italian_Apulia
4.5	Italian_Sardinia

It is likely Slavs who invaded Balkans were already mixed and not pure proto-Slavs, that would even be expected perhaps. But still I think most interesting to find out their proto-Slavic percentage.
AV1 is child of AV2 and seem to be half Panonnian of some sort, kinda mixed with Celto-Germanic and Roman, sth along these lines.

[oszkar07]

My results when using above mentioned ancient Slavs and Illyrians from Croatia and Hungary (I remove Thracian from source who would artificaly increase my Slavic because I have zero Thracian)

Target: Stearsolina_scaled
Distance: 2.2310% / 0.02230987

60.2 (Balto-)Slavic
39.8 Balkan

just for fun. mine using your samples plus

Thraco-Dacian,0.126344,0.157407,0.007165,-0.051034,0.029852,-0.02259,0.00423,-0.001385,0.007772,0.032074,-0.001461,0.005695,-0.013974,-0.003028,-0.015065,-0.001458,0.01369,0.006968,0.006285,-0.014757,-0.006239,0.004699,-0.007888,0.003494,-0.008861
Thraco-Dacian,0.1189452,0.1210172,0.0215587,-0.0114665,0.0141048,-0.003951,0.0019977,-0.0041152,-0.0018065,0.021018,0.0008122,0.0028475,-0.0096877,-0.0022708,-0.0063108,0.0022098,0.00452,0.0035473,0.0094065,-0.0026263,-0.008298,0.0063063,-0.0011503,0.002149,0.0005985
Dalmatian,0.119514,0.148267,0.015839,-0.01615,0.032621,-0.010877,-0.00329,-0.001385,0.006954,0.014943,0.004547,0.011989,-0.023042,-0.009909,-0.002307,-0.008751,0.001434,-0.003547,0.006536,0.003252,0.000499,-0.001855,0.003204,-0.001566,-0.017364
Dalmatian,0.132035,0.151314,0.033941,-0.01615,0.024928,-0.005857,-0.006345,0.007154,0.003681,0.028976,0.001786,0.011 69,-0.02111,-0.001376,-0.005972,-0.008486,-0.006519,0.004941,0.005531,-0.014257,-0.001872,0.00507,0.001479,0.00253,0.003353
Dalmatian,0.124636,0.149283,0.031301,-0.0098515,0.0386225,-0.0023705,-0.00564,-0.002423,0.006647,0.030069,8.15e-05,0.0106405,-0.0150145,-0.009152,-0.006786,0.0086185,0.014277,-0.0020905,0.0034565,-0.011318,-0.0035565,0.0037715,-0.00228,0.002952,-0.001796

Target: Oszkar
Distance: 2.6435% / 0.02643497
39.4 Dalmatian
30.8 (Balto-)Slavic
23.4 (Balto-)SlavicEU_Krakauer_Berg_MA_KRA011
6.4 Thraco-Dacian

[Varda]

Probably Torbeši https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_Muslims

[rothaer]

Maybe but these other all get Lithuanians and Belarusians in modern Oracles first, Sunhgir gets Ukrainians and south Russians iirc (did not check)
And on K13 Sunghir visibly more southern than them plus some Siberian too.

Yes, a single PCA does not show all aspects, so there can always be some notable deviations "hidden". For me personally the removal of Sunghir6 doesn't change the Slavic Proportion of 40.0% in this calculator. But Macedonians f. i. get 46.4% with and 46.0% without Sunghir6 among the references. So their "Slavic" obviously had some (small) advantage of the particular character of that Sunghir6 sample.

[Jana]

Yes, a single PCA does not show all aspects, so there can always be some notable deviations "hidden". For me personally the removal of Sunghir6 doesn't change the Slavic Proportion of 40.0% in this calculator. But Macedonians f. i. get 46.4% with and 46.0% without Sunghir6 among the references. So their "Slavic" obviously had some (small) advantage of the particular character of that Sunghir6 sample.

Yes, east/south Balkan better modeled with Sunghir, but that doesn't make Sunghir pure early Slav. Probably they are better modeled with him because he shifts southeastern from other early Slavs I posted.
Better fits can be very misleading.

This is my opinion at least.

[rothaer]

Probably Torbeši https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_Muslims

Could well be. If anyone would know a Torbes or Pomak G25 samlple that would be very interesting for comparison.

[rothaer]

Yes, east/south Balkan better modeled with Sunghir, but that doesn't make Sunghir pure early Slav. Probably they are better modeled with him because he shifts southeastern from other early Slavs I posted.
Better fits can be very misleading.

This is my opinion at least.

If Sunghir6 does not fit to the other early Slavs because of some additional traits, it should be removed from the references. And yes, just because the calculator choses what has the best fit, it mustn't be correct.

[Jana]

If Sunghir6 does not fit to the other early Slavs because of some additional traits, it should be removed from the references. And yes, just because the calculator choses what has the best fit, it mustn't be correct.

I am not sure, just expressing my opinion. Would be interested to hear other's opinions too. Perhaps Slavs had diversity too.
But for me it's indicative how Slavs who lived deep into Germany centuries after medieval migrations still managed be so Baltic like, and there were no Baltic migrations into Germany.

Plus Avar2 from Pannonia was also like that and these Moravian Pohansko samples too.

To me this indicates early Slavs were highly homogenous and very much northeastern.

And I think Ukrainians and south Russians have something more southern than that (obviously they don't plot between Belarus and Litwa), maybe of Iranic-Caucasus sort (not sure).
Yes wild fields were re-settled from north and west but still, from what I saw, previous occupants are never truly erased from DNA, some people always remain and intermix.

[Jana]

Scyths and Sarmats were huge tribes in Ukraine area, I simply don't buy expanding Slavs absorbed none of such admixture but just steppe Turks did.
So now I am not talking about Russo-Turkish wars but centuries before that.

Iranic nomads were large mass of people who couldn't vanish just like that!
And I think that sort of light substratum may explain why Ukrainians and southern Russians don't plot like early Slavic samples from Germany, Moravia and Hungary.

[Leto]

It is likely Slavs who invaded Balkans were already mixed and not pure proto-Slavs, that would even be expected perhaps. But still I think most interesting to find out their proto-Slavic percentage.
AV1 is child of AV2 and seem to be half Panonnian of some sort, kinda mixed with Celto-Germanic and Roman, sth along these lines.

Mixed with what? This is getting ridiculous IMO 'cause now Latvians are supposed to be more "Slavic" than the actual Slavs.
I personally prefer to say we're just (North)eastern Europeans. Steppe-rich, Northern-blooded is what matters more to me (and what pisses others off, apparently) than some linguistic labels.