"35%-55% Ashkenazis are of European Descent"

[Loki]

Awwww....

No homo pls














well ... maybe a little bro-love can go a long way

[Osweo]

'Dark Ages' is a turn of phrase referring to the pre-Renaissance era. Perhaps I just like to see the good in humanity, but I don't consider ignorance and fanaticism to be 'business as usual'.

Dark Ages primarily refer to obscure periods for which written sources are patchy. In Britain it mostly means that between the departure of the Legions and the arrival of the Saxons.

I've never heard it used for the High Mediaeval period as you imply here.

And ignorance and fanaticism is pretty much the natural state of mankind. You and your cousin Marx notwithstanding.

Ashkenazis are a European ethnic group.

Not a single actual European ethnic group has failed to violently refute that rather insolent claim at some time or other.

I was born in England, so I could be called 'English',

No. Just NO.

though I am not of English descent. I was simply born here. Neither my mother nor my father are English. My mother is Romanian and my father is French. Therefore I am of Romanian and French descent.

Insulting Rumanians, French AND English now. Nice one.

Closer to Mediterranean Europeans than Georgians!!

They are a group of dual origins. As such, they show a 'pull' from both sides in the mix when placed on such a chart. The European blood that the Jews have absorbed is pulling them closer to us. The same could be said of many Blacks with some Euro ancestry from the slavery period.

[Thunor]

Sicilians, Southern Italians, and Cypriots - Semitic (and a bit North African too, me thinks) admixed Europeans

Were the Cypriots ever Europeans proper, or just natives of that island next-door to Israel who just happen to speak Greek? I heard many different things from the Greeks on the forum in that other thread, so I'm not really sure what they are.

(I also agree about the Sicilians, I've seen some very racially questionable half-Arab types among them.)

Ashkenazi Jews - European admixed Semites

Indeed. I think the question here is: at what point do they stop being Semites and start being Europeans?

So that's pretty much my opinion - some Jews are more European, others are more Semitic.

[GeistFaust]

Religious culture is very much up to questioning, because a person from any culture can believe whatever they want. Well, maybe not in the Arab world.

I don't think its up for questioning at all. I think a person can not be considered truly European if they are not European in both genetic orientation, mode of conduct(Which includes traditions, cultural rituals and practices, and religious practices), mentality(Which is shaped by the former), and finally language.


Language probably plays the most essential role at a substratum level, but its mutually inclusive as being an important matter along with the previous criteria. If you are Muslim you are not submitting your mode of conduct to the nature of your genetic orientation, which should coincide in possessing a certain European mentality.


A mentality which is extremely hard to form when one acts, believes, and thinks like a Muslim. If anything it is contradictory in its very nature to adhere to Muslim beliefs, and to incorporate it in a European culture by European peoples. This is because Islam was a religion practiced by Non-European peoples in situ.


This means the mentality and language which shaped and constructed the mode of conduct relating to the Islam religion is not European whatsoever. I think that it is resonable enough to say that if a genetic European practices an Eastern religion can not be considered truly European.


A person who practices Christianity though, although it originally takes its root in a Semitic thought and mentality can be considered European. This is because Christianity was structured, integrated and grounded in European cultures going back for almost a 2 whole Milleniums.


It was used as a tool for political, militaristic, cultural, and social affairs. It was shaped by people of largely European descent, at least its core dogma, laws, and doctrine. Its mentality and mode of conduct reflects linguistic nature of the people, which coincides and arose with a people of a certain genetic orientation, namely the European peoples.


I think its quite simple when you think of it, and Pagans and Agnostic/Atheists/Pagans can be considered European as well if they are at least of European origins in a genetic sense. Its impossible to be Jewish, Islam, or Buddisht and to act and be a truly European person if you are one.


Just like its contradictory to be Jewish, and to not believe in the Jewish religion. That said this might be too conservative of a viewpoint, since definitions are expanding in response to the dynamic changes in the social and cultural orientation of European and Jewish peoples in the modern era.

[Loki]

Well, yes. Ashkenazi Jews may be extremely ethnocentric and endogamous in comparision to their European neighbours, but there have at least been some mixing with the goyim.

You sure that plot is only for Ashkenazim? Not disagreeing, just checking. But of course Ashkenazim would be closer to Europeans genetically than other Jews, because of long intermixing and living besides Europeans.

Anyroad (Ossieism) good night and have fun. Loki out

[Portukalos]

Not at all the Sephardim have been slowly replacig the Ashkenazim as the dominant force in Israel. This has led to a greater Sephardic influence which has brought Israel into being more Middle Eastern than European. So no your info is actually currently dated. Sephardic Jews in recent times have assimilated the more Semitic and darker skinned Mizharim and Temanim Jews who are all called Sephardic due to this and the rite they follow. However true Sephardics although more Semitic than Ashkenazim, they have also a good amount of European genetics, but now days they have become more Middle Eastern and Semitic than the Ashkenazim. The Israelite ancestry is best preserved among the Mizharim, and the Temanim are just Arabian converts, but nowdays they all became Sephardics.

I disagree with you. Ashkenazim are still the dominant force of Israel. Ashkenazi Jews are like 48% in terms of numbers while Mizrahi/Sephardic are 50% but Ashkenazim still are dominating the politics. However you are wrong cause in the beginning (in the 70's) when the Jews arrived in Israel , Ashkenazim didn't make the effort to distinct Jews by their religious rite , thus Jews from Greece who were Sephardic were counted as Ashkenazim because they came from Nazi occuped Europe and the chief Rabbi of Iraqi Jews was declared as Sephardic chief , despite the rite difference. Now , it has changed. The term Sephardic is only applied to Jews of North African and South European Jewish ancestry because of their clear connection with Spain and it has became a synonym of them. On the other hand Yemenite Jews are never considered as Sephardic , then you have Caucasian Jews who form a community and then all of from Iraq and neighbours areas.

[Raikaswinþs]

Do Jews in Singapore worship a different God to the Jews living in West Philadelphia?

Do Christians from Guatemala worship the same god that Christians from England?

[PetiteParisienne]

Here are some other maps of where Ashkenazis cluster.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT.../s1600/pca.jpg

http://theoccidentalobserver.net/tooblog/?cat=36

[PetiteParisienne]

Do Christians from Guatemala worship the same god that Christians from England?

Does the Pope sh*t in the woods?

[Styggnacke]

Were the Cypriots ever Europeans proper, or just natives of that island next-door to Israel who just happen to speak Greek? I heard many different things from the Greeks on the forum in that other thread, so I'm not really sure what they are.

To be honest, my knowledge about Cypriots is limited.

(I also agree about the Sicilians, I've seen some very racially questionable half-Arab types among them.)

You mean like him:



I'd say that Sicilians are one very diverse bunch of people.

Indeed. I think the question here is: at what point do they stop being Semites and start being Europeans?

Good question: When did they become European? Did they ever become European? I don't know. I'm a bit ambiguous when it comes to the Juice.

So that's pretty much my opinion - some Jews are more European, others are more Semitic.

I agree.