"35%-55% Ashkenazis are of European Descent"

[GeistFaust]

Cheers, Geist. I think my more lax stance on who is/isn't white/European stems from the fact that my parents aren't of the same nationality, and that I was not born in either of their native countries.
I see secular Ashkenazi Jews who are indistinguishable from Gentiles as 'ok' for the cause because they are, as I said, indistinguishable. My personal view is that if they are not accepted, the cause might be losing valuable assets. A blonde haired blue eyed secular Ashkenazi can secure blonde hair and blue eyes just as well as a blonde haired blue eyed gentile.

Yes, but a lax stance is only going to put us in a deeper ditch. We need people who will be hardcore, and even chauvinistic about European identity in order to truly protect the true European identity. You have to define what is indistinguishable from Ashkernazi Jews and Gentiles before you squeeze them into the same category.


If its merely cultural then I must say nein to the fact they are indistinguishable. If its because of phenotype, hair color, or eye color than I must say nein in part, because there are Non-European people with a phenotype that is pseudo-European looking. There are Non-European people with a blonde hair color or blue eye color, although this is relatively rare.


If you want to say Ashkernazi Jews and Europeans are indistinguishable based on a few aspects or a partial degree of their identity then you are cherry picking here. This is a fallacious use of logic to support an agenda or ideology, but it sits on shanty grounds with no firm intrinsic support.


If you want to say Ashkernazi Jews and Europeans are indistinguishable based on all the factors there are to calculate then there is no reason to admit or affirm the term Ashkernazi and European as disjunctive terms in meaning. Therefore a person of who is of partial Ashkernazi descent or who practices or believes in Ashkernazi traditions or mentalities can not be considered truly and wholly European.

[Portukalos]

As for culture, compare the folk dances, music, etc of some Balkan nations to nearby West Asian ones and you'll begin to see connections. So if using culture as to why Jews are not European, consider this too!

Balkans got large portions of J , E , G haplogroups of the Y chromosome and the recent genetic discovers in France and Spain make us think that these kinds of haplogroups made their expansion before R1b. A continuation of the gradual human settlements from West Asia basically.

[GeistFaust]

Really, I don't know if I agree. If that guy who is 1/8 Black is not European , then what is he...


Seriously, You'd only consider someone with less than 1/8 Jewish ancestry as European? That is very weird. I don't follow this logic GeistFraust , or perhaps you are confusing yourself as well.

If that guy who is 1/8th black then I consider him black in relation to the one drop rule as applied by the Jim Crow's Law. There are other historical factors I could include in this analysis as well such as the inferiority of black genetics, modes of conduct, language, and mentality.


Plus they have not had a duration of existence in European countries whatsoever. I am not confusing myself, I just have a complicated and historically informed system of calculating who qualifies as what based on a certain list of criteria.


The politically correct and liberal infused mind, which appears to be a commonality in the Western world can not grasp such logic, because they have a narrow understanding of the cold hard facts, which vary from situation to situation.

[Sikeliot]

Keep in mind I was not saying Ashkenazis or Sephardis are necessarily European but rather that we can't, and should not, be hypocritical with who we consider European and who we do not. If genetics are the determining factor, we must also exclude groups of genetic similarity to Jews. If it's culture, then some Balkan countries who are more recently West Asian influenced than are Jews should be considered as well.

The best argument I can use is that the Jewish identity formed in the Levant and not Europe, and that simple fact makes them a Middle Eastern group who have undergone Europeanization over time.

[Nglund]

Therefore a person with 1/8th Jewish, like Horst Mahler, would be the only person I would consider truly Europe, because other peoples are either inferior or have never had a presence in European culture for an extended period of time.

You are therefore denying that the following are European?

All 1st and 2nd degree Mischlings (respectively 1/2 & 1/4 Jewish).

[GeistFaust]

You are therefore denying that the following are European?

All 1st and 2nd degree Mischlings (respectively 1/2 & 1/4 Jewish).

With Jews and Asians, but especially Jews, I would be willing to classify them as partial Europeans.

They are not truly European though in any sense of what it means to be one.

They are half-breeds and race-mixed, and there is no more that needs to be said.

[Osweo]

If you subscribe to the belief that Jews are tricksters, you may as well believe that they are the descendants of the Khazars, too. And that Jews have 'Jew Gold', use the blood of gentile children to make unleavened bread, poison wells, caused the Black Plague, are actually in favour of the Muslim take-over of Europe, want to enslave all non-Jews, poison non-Kosher food to keep non-Jews weak, that Jews have ESP with all other Jews, etc.

HALT!

Gentlemen, sounds like a confession to me! Prepare the Auto da Fe!

I would like to point out that Europe is somewhat subjective, and it was only recently British began to think of themselves as European.

Nonsense.

William Wyndham Grenville, 1st Baron Grenville PC, PC (Ire) (25 October 1759 – 12 January 1834) was a British Whig statesman. He served as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom from 1806 to 1807 as head of the Ministry of All the Talents.\
See here;
http://www.jstor.org/pss/1874357
for his European notions.

[Beorn]

Really, I don't know if I agree. If that guy who is 1/8 Black is not European , then what is he...

Someone who is thought 1/8th non-European.

Keep in mind I was not saying Ashkenazis or Sephardis are necessarily European but rather that we can't, and should not, be hypocritical with who we consider European and who we do not. If genetics are the determining factor, we must also exclude groups of genetic similarity to Jews. If it's culture, then some Balkan countries who are more recently West Asian influenced than are Jews should be considered as well.

Why? Should we be silent as others are vocal?

You are therefore denying that the following are European?
All 1st and 2nd degree Mischlings (respectively 1/2 & 1/4 Jewish).

Yep! You declared their non-European ancestry. It kinda implies something here.

[PetiteParisienne]

Another study worth reading.

http://www.jogg.info/11/coffman.htm

[PetiteParisienne]

HALT!

Gentlemen, sounds like a confession to me! Prepare the Auto da Fe!



Nonsense.

A confession? Or rather just tired of hearing ghost stories.