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Thread: Large-Scale Migration into Southern Britain During the Middle to Late Bronze Age

  1. #61
    Veteran Member Ajeje Brazorf's Avatar
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    In case anyone is interested, this is the new average for Iron Age France.

    Code:
    FRA_IA,0.128541621,0.140633276,0.056594069,0.028546517,0.044581069,0.009030241,0.000818414,0.00247469,0.012927276,0.018946379,-0.001562241,0.007508862,-0.015194138,-0.010074931,0.013094759,0.002199138,-0.006298897,0.003175931,0.002912655,-0.000250138,0.002366552,0.003052931,-0.002728517,-0.004001379,-0.001313069
    
    Distance to:	FRA_IA
    0.01763960	French_Occitanie
    0.01828486	French_Nord
    0.02009800	French_Paris
    0.02066631	Swiss_German
    0.02083633	Belgian
    0.02157963	French_Alsace
    0.02218229	French_Auvergne
    0.02227399	French_Pas-de-Calais
    0.02507629	French_Brittany
    0.02920175	French_Seine-Maritime
    0.02955738	Swiss_French
    Samples from the British Isles, in ascending order from the oldest to the most recent.

    https://pastebin.com/raw/XSvajvPF
    Last edited by Ajeje Brazorf; 12-23-2021 at 03:01 PM.

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    There is more than one "out of place" sample. England_N_o:I2611 and England_N_o:I3035 have something like 25-28% ANE, there is no way samples dating back to 3000 and 3750 BC could have that percentage... In short it's a big mess, and we have to seriously hope Davidski redoes them.

    Spoiler!

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    A BBC article about the study. Not bad, without much leftist editorializing
    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-59741723

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creoda View Post
    It seems very plausible that a similar level of replacement that accompanied Celtic speech into Southern Britain (c.50%), then occurred between British Celts and the native Irish. It looks like the Celtic influence in Ireland mostly came via Wales to Southeastern Ireland (Leinster), not via SW Scotland to Ulster, as I imagined for a long time for some reason. I guess R-L21/M222 from the less Celtic NW Ireland had a later resurgence, after Christ.
    For example:

    Bronze Age British/Irish averages
    Code:
    Target: England_MBA
    Distance: 3.7488% / 0.03748788 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    51.6	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    32.6	TUR_Barcin_N
    15.8	WHG
    
    Target: IRL_BA
    Distance: 3.8165% / 0.03816471 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    54.6	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    30.8	TUR_Barcin_N
    14.6	WHG
    
    Target: Scotland_MBA
    Distance: 3.5360% / 0.03535981
    51.0	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    32.8	TUR_Barcin_N
    16.2	WHG
    Iron Age British averages
    Code:
    Target: England_Roman
    Distance: 4.1337% / 0.04133724 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    48.6	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    36.8	TUR_Barcin_N
    14.6	WHG
    
    Target: England_IA
    Distance: 3.8860% / 0.03886000 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    49.6	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    36.6	TUR_Barcin_N
    13.8	WHG
    Modern Irish
    Code:
    Target: Irish
    Distance: 4.9124% / 0.04912391 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    50.0	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    36.0	TUR_Barcin_N
    14.0	WHG
    
    Target: Irish
    Distance: 1.2232% / 0.01223222
    67.6	England_Roman
    20.6	England_IA
    11.8	England_MBA
    
    Distance to:	Irish
    0.01239658	74.20% England_Roman + 25.80% England_IA
    0.01269639	20.40% England_MBA + 79.60% England_Roman
    0.01275402	12.80% IRL_BA + 87.20% England_Roman
    0.01306196	90.20% England_Roman + 9.80% Scotland_MBA
    0.01614236	43.80% England_MBA + 56.20% England_IA
    0.01781033	17.00% IRL_BA + 83.00% England_IA
    0.01820309	88.20% England_IA + 11.80% Scotland_MBA
    With Scotland LBA instead to represent LBA Irish:
    Code:
    Target: Irish
    Distance: 1.2205% / 0.01220468 | R2P
    66.8	England_Roman
    33.2	Scotland_LBA
    
    Distance to:	Irish
    0.01220468	66.80% England_Roman + 33.20% Scotland_LBA
    0.01230924	43.20% England_IA + 56.80% Scotland_LBA
    And the new IA England/Wales samples:
    Code:
    Target: England_EastYorkshire_EIA
    Distance: 3.9154% / 0.03915447
    47.2	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    38.8	TUR_Barcin_N
    14.0	WHG
    
    Target: England_EastYorkshire_IA
    Distance: 4.0400% / 0.04040043
    49.4	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    37.8	TUR_Barcin_N
    12.8	WHG
    
    Target: England_EastYorkshire_LIA
    Distance: 4.1701% / 0.04170054
    49.0	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    35.8	TUR_Barcin_N
    15.2	WHG
    
    Target: England_EastYorkshire_MIA
    Distance: 4.0667% / 0.04066695
    49.0	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    37.4	TUR_Barcin_N
    13.6	WHG
    
    Target: England_EastYorkshire_MIA_LIA
    Distance: 3.8841% / 0.03884125
    47.6	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    37.0	TUR_Barcin_N
    15.4	WHG
    
    Target: England_EastYorkshire_MIA_LIA_sister.I5511
    Distance: 4.3215% / 0.04321455
    47.6	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    36.0	TUR_Barcin_N
    16.4	WHG
    
    Target: England_EIA
    Distance: 3.9945% / 0.03994453
    45.4	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    38.8	TUR_Barcin_N
    15.8	WHG
    
    Target: England_EIA_highEEF
    Distance: 3.8278% / 0.03827753
    47.6	TUR_Barcin_N
    34.6	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    17.8	WHG
    
    Target: England_IA
    Distance: 4.0647% / 0.04064679
    49.0	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    35.6	TUR_Barcin_N
    15.4	WHG
    
    Target: England_IA_EarlyMedieval
    Distance: 5.8132% / 0.05813230
    51.2	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    36.2	TUR_Barcin_N
    12.6	WHG
    
    Target: England_LIA
    Distance: 3.6810% / 0.03680978
    47.4	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    37.0	TUR_Barcin_N
    15.6	WHG
    
    Target: England_LIA_daughter.I19870
    Distance: 3.7522% / 0.03752232
    42.4	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    41.0	TUR_Barcin_N
    16.0	WHG
    0.6	Han
    
    Target: England_LIA_highEEF
    Distance: 4.6160% / 0.04616026
    46.6	TUR_Barcin_N
    36.8	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    16.6	WHG
    
    Target: England_LIA_o
    Distance: 4.2249% / 0.04224891
    48.4	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    37.4	TUR_Barcin_N
    14.2	WHG
    
    Target: England_LIA_sister.I14351
    Distance: 4.9115% / 0.04911533
    55.2	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    33.0	TUR_Barcin_N
    11.4	WHG
    0.4	MAR_Taforalt
    
    Target: England_MIA
    Distance: 3.9604% / 0.03960375
    46.6	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    37.8	TUR_Barcin_N
    15.6	WHG
    
    Target: England_MIA_highEEF
    Distance: 3.4351% / 0.03435114
    44.4	TUR_Barcin_N
    38.6	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    17.0	WHG
    
    Target: England_MIA_LIA
    Distance: 4.1116% / 0.04111610
    46.2	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    38.2	TUR_Barcin_N
    15.6	WHG
    
    Target: England_MIA_LIA_mother.I12793
    Distance: 4.4465% / 0.04446490
    49.8	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    36.6	TUR_Barcin_N
    13.6	WHG
    
    Target: England_MIA_LIA_o
    Distance: 4.7225% / 0.04722492
    49.0	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    34.8	TUR_Barcin_N
    15.2	WHG
    0.6	MAR_Taforalt
    0.4	Han
    
    Target: England_MIA_lowEEF
    Distance: 4.7788% / 0.04778789
    54.8	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    32.2	TUR_Barcin_N
    13.0	WHG
    
    Target: Wales_IA
    Distance: 4.1210% / 0.04120952
    48.8	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    36.6	TUR_Barcin_N
    14.6	WHG
    
    Target: Wales_LIA_lc
    Distance: 4.3902% / 0.04390174
    46.4	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    39.0	TUR_Barcin_N
    14.6	WHG
    
    Target: Wales_MIA
    Distance: 3.5155% / 0.03515529
    47.2	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    36.0	TUR_Barcin_N
    16.8	WHG
    
    Target: Wales_MIA_LIA
    Distance: 5.0712% / 0.05071190
    54.8	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    31.8	TUR_Barcin_N
    13.4	WHG
    From this the British Celtic replacement in Ireland actually looks dominant! But who knows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajeje Brazorf View Post
    There is more than one "out of place" sample. England_N_o:I2611 and England_N_o:I3035 have something like 25-28% ANE, there is no way samples dating back to 3000 and 3750 BC could have that percentage... In short it's a big mess, and we have to seriously hope Davidski redoes them.

    Spoiler!
    It seems many of the samples weren't radiocarbon dated yet. That's probably why the study still isn't officially published.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vbnetkhio View Post
    It seems many of the samples weren't radiocarbon dated yet. That's probably why the study still isn't officially published.
    New coordinates by Davidski, these one should be better than the previous

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VFr...WU4TIppjB/view

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajeje Brazorf View Post
    New coordinates by Davidski, these one should be better than the previous

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VFr...WU4TIppjB/view
    Don't want to bother you mate, but can you explain how to process averaging G25 coordinates, please?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajeje Brazorf View Post
    New coordinates by Davidski, these one should be better than the previous

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VFr...WU4TIppjB/view
    Top 4 closest modern populations to each sample:

    Spoiler!

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    ^^^ Part 2:

    Spoiler!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stearsolina View Post
    J2b2 L283 now confirmed as major Illyrian haplogroup:

    I26726, 1461 BCE, Croatia_MBA, Gudnja cave, J-L283>>Z615>Z597>Z638>Z1297 (B440-, Y37818-, Y1421-)
    I24345, ~950 BCE, Croatia_MBA_LBA_EIA, Velim-Kosa, J-L283>?
    I23911, 844 BCE, Croatia_EIA, Smiljan, J-L283>>Z615>Z597>Z38240>PH1602>Y86930
    I23995, 743 BCE, Croatia_EIA, Smiljan, J-L283>>Z615>Z597>Z38240>PH1602>Y86930
    I24638, 681 BCE, Croatia_EIA, Smiljan, J-L283>>Z615>Z597>Z38240>PH1602>Y86930
    I24639, 681 BCE, Croatia_EIA, Smiljan, J-L283>>Z615>Z597>Z38240>PH1602>Y86930
    I26742, 700 BCE, Croatia_EIA, Jazinka Cave, J-L283>>Z615>Z597>Z38240>Z38241 (FT108123-, Y130843-, Y91418-, PH502-, Y86930-)
    I24882, 662 BCE, Croatia_EIA, Mala Metaljka, J-L283>>Z615>Z597>Z38240>PH1602>Y86930
    I4998, 300 BCE, Hungary_IA_LaTene, Vas county, J-L283>>Z615>Z597>Y15058
    I5691, 666 BCE, Slovenia_EIA, Novo mesto, Kapiteljska njive, J-L283>>Z615>Z597 (Z2507-, FT29034-, FGC64029-)
    I22940, 475 BCE, Slovenia_EIA, Zagorje ob Savi, J-L283>>Z615>Z597>Z2507

    Comment from Eupedia forum:
    This might just prove too that santa Claus really exists lol, cause this corfirmation is what i and many others j l283 wanted for Christmas, only one or two would have been pretty good , but eleven? That is crazy.
    Last edited by Tongio; 12-24-2021 at 06:33 PM.

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