Gedmatch calculators on Vahaduo

**Peterski** · 01-01-2022, 11:40 PM

How about adding also German_Jewish population average ???

These are the same samples that were used in Global25 to make Ashkenazi_Germany population:

(DE_DE are fully from Germany; AT_DE is half Austria half Germany)

Code:

Ashk_DE_DE_1,13.60,4.84,18.39,11.37,39.60,8.46,0,1.03,0,0,1.21,1.51,0
Ashk_DE_DE_10,19.13,4.96,18.59,7.48,40.41,5.07,0,1.63,0.39,0.40,0.65,1.20,0.09
Ashk_DE_DE_11,14.04,4.99,20.93,7.86,40.54,7.73,0,0.89,0.86,0.21,1.00,0.53,0.43
Ashk_DE_DE_2,18.24,6.97,16.23,9.17,39.91,6.66,0.43,0,0.65,0.39,0,0,1.34
Ashk_DE_DE_3,13.00,7.12,19.95,10.65,39.96,6.52,0.41,0.02,0,0,0.43,0.65,1.28
Ashk_DE_DE_4,15.56,5.59,18.75,10.46,40.64,5.65,1.55,0,0,0,0.79,1.01,0
Ashk_DE_DE_5,15.90,7.03,19.87,10.14,36.50,6.28,0,1.40,0.33,0.89,0,1.04,0.62
Ashk_DE_DE_6,15.94,4.42,20.12,11.93,37.59,5.59,0,0.56,0,0.86,0.58,0.60,1.79
Ashk_DE_DE_7,19.85,4.13,19.97,6.60,39.65,6.78,0,0.82,0,0.49,0,1.14,0.56
Ashk_DE_DE_8,13.12,8.62,20.14,9.10,39.80,5.52,0.24,1.35,0,0.60,0.03,0.75,0.73
Ashk_DE_DE_9,14.46,5.18,19.00,13.05,38.04,5.74,1.70,1.11,0.19,0,0.03,1.47,0.04
Ashk_AT_DE_1,17.31,7.17,16.96,9.42,37.24,6.23,0.92,0,1.48,0.84,0.08,0.79,1.55

**Peterski** · 01-01-2022, 11:53 PM

Here is the average (these are academic samples, but of course Jews from GEDmatch can be added too):

Code:

German_Jewish,15.85,5.92,19.08,9.77,39.16,6.35,0.44,0.73,0.33,0.39,0.40,0.89,0.70

Distance to:	German_Jewish
4.25860306	Jew_Italy
5.16441671	Jew_Moldova
6.35037007	Jew_Sephardi
6.37775039	Jew_Ashkenazi
6.40543519	Jew_Algeria
6.89935504	Jew_Morroco
8.56658625	Jew_Tunisia
8.65227716	Italian_Calabria
9.05433046	Maltese
9.57498825	Greek_Symi

**J. Ketch** · 01-02-2022, 01:09 AM

Comparison with other Germanics, new German averages bolded:

Code:

Distance to:	Swiss_German
1.34260940	French_Alsace
1.98821528	German_North_Baden
2.24530622	German_South
2.54373741	German_South_Hesse
2.80365832	Pennsylvania_Dutch
2.83291369	German_Bavaria_proper
2.98011745	German_Upper_Swabia
3.12822633	German_Rhineland-Palatinate
3.86736344	German_Lower_Franconia
3.91447314	Swiss_French
4.06621446	French_Northeast
4.50973392	German_North_Rhine
4.87435124	German_North_Hesse
5.15387233	Austrian_Upper_Austria
5.70218379	French_Canadian
5.78308741	French_Central
6.26118200	German_Saarland
6.28885522	Belgian
6.50744189	German_West
6.57455702	French_Normandy
6.72927188	Austrian_Lower_Austria
7.02115375	Flemish
7.37181796	German_Central_Hesse
7.49415772	Afrikaner
7.55252938	German_Bavarian_Swabia


Distance to:	Swedish
1.71449701	Swedish_West-Svealand
2.98025167	Swedish_Götaland
3.42238221	Norwegian_Southcentral
3.52420204	Danish
3.90887452	German_Hamburg
4.09625439	Swedish_East-Svealand
4.32578317	Norwegian
4.63498652	German_Lower_Saxony_north
4.91450913	German_Northwest
5.13918281	German_West_Mecklenburg
5.25629147	Dutch_North
5.54860343	German_North
5.85795186	Icelandic
5.95304124	German_Schleswig-Holstein
6.01345159	German_Hither_Pomerania
6.37629987	Dutch_Central
6.63143273	Dutch
7.11487175	German_Lower_Saxony_south
7.27721100	German_Westphalia
7.86860852	Orcadian
8.42623285	English_North
8.48181584	Scottish_Gàidhealtachd
8.70005172	Scottish_Northeast
8.78790646	Swedish_Norrland
8.80528251	German_Frisian

Distance to:	Norwegian
1.18978990	Danish
1.28136646	Norwegian_Southcentral
1.51052971	Swedish_Götaland
1.78036513	German_Lower_Saxony_north
2.14639232	Icelandic
3.03537477	Swedish_West-Svealand
3.16588060	Dutch_North
3.62227829	German_Hamburg
4.32578317	Swedish
4.53018763	German_Northwest
4.62561347	German_Schleswig-Holstein
4.66439707	Dutch_Central
5.03289181	German_Westphalia
5.11523216	Scottish_Gàidhealtachd
5.16778483	Orcadian
5.24784718	Dutch
5.30584583	German_North
5.64483835	German_Lower_Saxony_south
5.80262871	Scottish_Northeast
6.12739749	English_North
6.15798668	Scottish_Southwest
6.16091714	Scottish
6.19513519	Irish_Connacht
6.21736278	German_Frisian
6.32497431	Scottish_East

Distance to:	French_Alsace
1.18059307	German_South
1.34260940	Swiss_German
1.71848771	German_North_Baden
1.96900990	German_South_Hesse
2.28875512	German_Bavaria_proper
2.34061958	German_Upper_Swabia
2.71821633	Pennsylvania_Dutch
2.72675631	German_Rhineland-Palatinate
2.74435785	German_Lower_Franconia
3.61785848	German_North_Rhine
3.66187111	French_Northeast
4.25088226	Austrian_Upper_Austria
4.33775287	German_North_Hesse
4.94686770	Swiss_French
5.37604873	Belgian
5.37951671	German_West
5.81663133	French_Normandy
5.94350906	French_Canadian
5.96342184	German_Saarland
6.00925952	Flemish
6.25047998	German_Central_Hesse
6.30365767	French_Central
6.38553052	Afrikaner
6.82792062	German
6.97479032	Austrian_Lower_Austria

Distance to:	Flemish
1.07624347	Belgian
1.88202019	Dutch_South
2.40977177	French_Normandy
2.46385876	German_West
3.18223192	Afrikaner
3.31434760	German_North_Rhine
4.16404851	French_Northeast
4.37789904	English_Southeast
4.37971460	French_Brittany
4.74877879	German_North_Hesse
4.77667248	German_Rhineland-Palatinate
5.01471834	German_South_Hesse
5.06919126	English_Midlands
5.16364213	German_South
5.24981904	Austrian_Upper_Austria
5.29650828	English
5.41904051	German_Saarland
5.42524654	German
5.44276584	Pennsylvania_Dutch
5.47387431	German_Lower_Franconia
5.61923482	English_Southwest
5.68328250	German_Upper_Swabia
6.00925952	French_Alsace
6.05881176	German_North_Baden
6.07985197	Dutch

Distance to:	English_Southeast
0.75398939	English_Midlands
0.97046381	English
1.65317876	English_Southwest
2.02995074	English_North
2.57274173	Welsh
2.61488049	Dutch
3.15821152	German_Lower_Saxony_south
3.23184158	Scottish_East
3.26522587	Dutch_Central
3.34586312	Scottish
3.39869092	Scottish_North-Highlands
3.42324408	Dutch_South
3.44258624	Scottish_Northeast
3.46070802	French_Brittany
3.57310789	German_Westphalia
3.68028532	Orcadian
3.89146502	Scottish_Southwest
3.94723954	Irish_Leinster
4.35881865	German_Northwest
4.37789904	Flemish
4.67453741	Scottish_Gàidhealtachd
4.72492328	Dutch_North
5.01517697	Irish
5.14444360	Belgian
5.42595614	Irish_Connacht

Distance to:	English_North
1.13476870	English
1.28705089	Welsh
1.33161556	English_Midlands
1.46897924	English_Southwest
1.55900609	Scottish_Northeast
1.61632299	Scottish_East
1.69626059	Scottish
1.82614348	Scottish_North-Highlands
1.82630775	Orcadian
2.02995074	English_Southeast
2.18714426	Scottish_Southwest
2.41002075	Irish_Leinster
2.41464283	Dutch
2.55260651	Dutch_Central
2.94842331	Scottish_Gàidhealtachd
3.21141713	German_Westphalia
3.22474805	German_Lower_Saxony_south
3.34127221	Irish
3.64453015	Dutch_North
3.68205106	Irish_Connacht
3.76011968	Irish_Munster
4.28565048	German_Northwest
4.31383820	Irish_Ulster
4.58019650	French_Brittany
4.66306766	Icelandic

Distance to:	English_Midlands
0.30805844	English
0.75398939	English_Southeast
1.13512114	English_Southwest
1.33161556	English_North
1.91809802	Welsh
2.50429631	Dutch
2.58280855	Scottish_East
2.70782200	Scottish
2.73420921	Scottish_Northeast
2.75426941	Scottish_North-Highlands
3.02390476	Dutch_Central
3.03117139	Orcadian
3.14171927	German_Lower_Saxony_south
3.24157369	Scottish_Southwest
3.31258207	Irish_Leinster
3.42692282	German_Westphalia
3.64839691	French_Brittany
4.05588461	Scottish_Gàidhealtachd
4.08500918	Dutch_South
4.34057600	German_Northwest
4.36942788	Irish
4.38257915	Dutch_North
4.77607580	Irish_Connacht
4.85906370	Irish_Munster
5.06919126	Flemish

Distance to:	English
0.30805844	English_Midlands
0.95728784	English_Southwest
0.97046381	English_Southeast
1.13476870	English_North
1.67074834	Welsh
2.34597528	Scottish_East
2.47552015	Scottish
2.49669782	Scottish_North-Highlands
2.51503479	Scottish_Northeast
2.57600466	Dutch
2.85259531	Orcadian
3.01239108	Scottish_Southwest
3.02441730	Dutch_Central
3.06432701	Irish_Leinster
3.25550303	German_Lower_Saxony_south
3.44913033	German_Westphalia
3.68294719	French_Brittany
3.86581169	Scottish_Gàidhealtachd
4.12674206	Irish
4.30455573	Dutch_South
4.37036612	Dutch_North
4.46832183	German_Northwest
4.55280134	Irish_Connacht
4.61852790	Irish_Munster
5.07810004	Irish_Ulster

Distance to:	Dutch_South
1.88202019	Flemish
2.54752821	Belgian
3.19759284	German_West
3.21881966	Afrikaner
3.22158346	French_Normandy
3.42324408	English_Southeast
4.08500918	English_Midlands
4.09622997	French_Brittany
4.30455573	English
4.67944441	English_Southwest
4.77930957	Dutch
4.82123428	German_North_Rhine
5.07337166	German
5.28485572	German_Lower_Saxony_south
5.30478086	English_North
5.47562782	French_Northeast
5.61436550	German_Northwest
5.64364244	Dutch_Central
5.76778987	Welsh
5.81265000	German_North_Hesse
5.92696381	German_Westphalia
5.96518231	Austrian_Upper_Austria
6.08885868	German_Rhineland-Palatinate
6.14138421	German_South_Hesse
6.28976152	German_Central_Hesse

Distance to:	Dutch_North
1.67098773	Dutch_Central
2.34987234	Dutch
2.57165316	Icelandic
2.59079138	German_Northwest
2.71289513	Danish
2.90418663	German_Lower_Saxony_north
3.04318912	German_Westphalia
3.11967947	German_Lower_Saxony_south
3.14919037	Orcadian
3.16588060	Norwegian
3.20023437	Norwegian_Southcentral
3.36257342	Swedish_Götaland
3.64453015	English_North
3.87524193	German_Hamburg
3.95770135	Scottish_Gàidhealtachd
3.96150224	Scottish_Northeast
4.19748734	Scottish
4.20085706	German_North
4.33973501	Scottish_East
4.37036612	English
4.38257915	English_Midlands
4.38351457	Scottish_Southwest
4.63864204	Scottish_North-Highlands
4.67588494	Welsh
4.72492328	English_Southeast

Distance to:	Dutch_Central
0.91471307	Dutch
1.67098773	Dutch_North
2.37373124	German_Lower_Saxony_south
2.48145119	German_Northwest
2.55260651	English_North
2.56195238	German_Westphalia
2.78714908	Orcadian
3.02390476	English_Midlands
3.02441730	English
3.26522587	English_Southeast
3.37572214	Scottish_Northeast
3.50563832	Scottish
3.60667437	Scottish_East
3.65775888	Icelandic
3.70098636	Welsh
3.75098654	English_Southwest
3.86608329	Scottish_Southwest
3.86859147	Scottish_Gàidhealtachd
3.88419876	Scottish_North-Highlands
4.21293247	Danish
4.26506741	German_North
4.26695442	German_Lower_Saxony_north
4.35449193	Irish_Leinster
4.66439707	Norwegian
4.75729965	Norwegian_Southcentral

Distance to:	Dutch
0.91471307	Dutch_Central
2.11681364	German_Lower_Saxony_south
2.23774440	German_Northwest
2.34987234	Dutch_North
2.41464283	English_North
2.50429631	English_Midlands
2.51934515	German_Westphalia
2.57600466	English
2.61488049	English_Southeast
3.06540373	Orcadian
3.38662073	English_Southwest
3.51943177	Scottish_Northeast
3.57326182	Welsh
3.65412096	Scottish
3.70045943	Scottish_East
3.96662325	Scottish_North-Highlands
4.09622997	Scottish_Southwest
4.09662056	German_North
4.21858981	Scottish_Gàidhealtachd
4.28631543	Icelandic
4.48915360	Irish_Leinster
4.74483930	Danish
4.77930957	Dutch_South
4.79069932	German_Lower_Saxony_north
5.24608425	Irish

Distance to:	Danish
0.85667964	Norwegian_Southcentral
0.86907997	Swedish_Götaland
1.18978990	Norwegian
1.62631485	German_Lower_Saxony_north
2.49040157	Swedish_West-Svealand
2.55984375	Icelandic
2.71289513	Dutch_North
3.05317867	German_Hamburg
3.52420204	Swedish
3.80320917	German_Northwest
4.21293247	Dutch_Central
4.48170726	German_Schleswig-Holstein
4.74483930	Dutch
4.81528815	German_North
4.89710118	German_Westphalia
5.05278141	Orcadian
5.17178886	German_Lower_Saxony_south
5.30605315	Scottish_Gàidhealtachd
5.76675819	Scottish_Northeast
5.87675080	English_North
6.15682548	Scottish
6.21118346	Scottish_Southwest
6.25130386	German_Frisian
6.31099834	Scottish_East
6.42203239	Irish_Connacht

Distance to:	Belgian
1.07624347	Flemish
1.93450252	French_Normandy
2.54752821	Dutch_South
2.78652113	German_West
2.90681957	German_North_Rhine
3.26309669	French_Northeast
3.31383464	Afrikaner
4.03288978	German_North_Hesse
4.05794283	German_Rhineland-Palatinate
4.26264003	German_South_Hesse
4.58201921	German_South
4.58464830	Pennsylvania_Dutch
4.79937496	French_Brittany
4.91215839	German_Saarland
5.14444360	English_Southeast
5.14882511	German_Upper_Swabia
5.19579638	Austrian_Upper_Austria
5.26079842	German_Lower_Franconia
5.37604873	French_Alsace
5.42436171	German_North_Baden
5.84906830	English_Midlands
5.88404623	German
6.05675656	English
6.10022950	French_Canadian
6.28885522	Swiss_German

Distance to:	Afrikaner
3.18223192	Flemish
3.21881966	Dutch_South
3.31383464	Belgian
3.45021738	German_West
4.35524971	French_Normandy
4.54441415	German_North_Rhine
5.16183107	French_Northeast
5.29581911	German
5.31654963	German_North_Hesse
5.61385785	English_Southeast
5.63882967	German_South_Hesse
5.75025217	German_South
5.76096346	German_Lower_Franconia
5.77028595	German_Rhineland-Palatinate
6.15661433	German_Upper_Swabia
6.24125789	English_Midlands
6.24676716	French_Brittany
6.24759954	Pennsylvania_Dutch
6.25072796	Austrian_Upper_Austria
6.38553052	French_Alsace
6.47640332	English
6.49576016	German_Lower_Saxony_south
6.50526710	German_Central_Hesse
6.57219902	Dutch
6.63590235	German_North_Baden

Distance to:	CreodaMum(Staffordshire)
2.62998099	German_Westphalia
2.66037591	German_Lower_Saxony_south
2.83118350	English_Midlands
2.91192376	English
2.94343337	English_North
3.03432035	English_Southeast
3.12904139	Welsh
3.22023291	Dutch
3.22962846	Scottish_East
3.24232941	Scottish
3.27583577	Scottish_Northeast
3.47466545	English_Southwest
3.49625514	Scottish_North-Highlands
3.60002778	Dutch_Central
3.60066660	Scottish_Gàidhealtachd
3.62339620	Scottish_Southwest
3.77544699	Irish_Leinster
3.80197317	German_Northwest
3.86297813	Orcadian
4.33601199	Dutch_North
4.48811765	German_North
4.49560897	Irish
4.59661832	Irish_Connacht
4.80980249	Icelandic
4.97711764	Irish_Munster

Quick PCA of West Germans with other Western European averages:

**Lucas** · 01-02-2022, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by Kaspias

What is the purpose of such political correctness? Your labels on Balkan Turks are wrong. Thrace samples are from all over Thrace, Deliorman samples are from the historical Deliorman region which covers NE Bulgaria and a bit of Romanian Dobruja whilst Ludogorie is only a small part of NE BG, Macedonia samples are from the whole Macedonia, not only from North Macedonia. Turks of Iraq are ethnically called Turkmen, not Turkish.

Please correct these accordingly in Eurogenes K13. They will replace Turkish_Iraq, Turkish_Eastern_Thrace, Turkish_Ludogorie and Turkish_North_Macedonia.

Code:

Turkish_Thrace,15.59,18.68,14.59,17.12,21.06,2.92,1.42,2.18,5.21,0.48,0.35,0.19,0.20
Turkish_Macedonia,19.58,18.64,16.77,13.73,23.61,2.80,0.68,1.01,2.18,0.21,0.36,0.21,0.24
Turkish_Deliorman,18.24,21.24,14.61,15.55,19.50,2.61,1.05,2.57,3.74,0.41,0.51,0.17,0.15
Turkmen_Iraq,4.43,2.1,8.05,35.26,31.26,7.43,5.96,2.1,0.91,0.63,0.22,0.67,0.98

Corrected

**Lucas** · 01-02-2022, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by Dunai

I consulted with the wiki articles when I made those changes, I didn't know that they all refer to historical regions of Thrace, Macedonia and Deliorman, but I believed they refer to the modern territories, which are known differently in the English language: there is the Macedonia region in Greece and separate North Macedonia country, Thrace is split in 3 regions between Greece, Turkey and Bulgaria, Deliorman is an aka to Ludogorie when you write it in on wiki. Regarding Turkmen in Iraq I wanted to make the distinction from Central Asian Turkmen, since the Iraqi ones are very close to Anatolian Turkish and not at all to Central Asian Turkmen. Maybe Iraqi_Turkmen would be the better name to them so they wouldn't be lumped with Central Asian Turkmen. With the other three modifications I believe you are correct.

Also if you make these 4 corrections Lukasz, can you also correct this?
From

Code:

Russian_Arkhangelsk-Vologda,26.52,49.43,5.57,4.65,1.14,0.51,0.99,0.44,8.60,1.19,0.47,0.17,0.34

To

Code:

Russian_North,26.52,49.43,5.57,4.65,1.14,0.51,0.99,0.44,8.60,1.19,0.47,0.17,0.34

ok

**~~Dunai~~** · 01-02-2022, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by Stearsolina

German averages for K13, done by rothaer and me. Lucas, please delete the following:

Code:

German_East,37.14,34.35,13.58,5.86,5.61,0.87,1.08,0.06,0.25,0.58,0.30,0.14,0.17
German_North,47.17,27.37,10.33,7.12,4.24,0.91,1.46,0.04,0.12,0.43,0.28,0.37,0.17
German_Northwest,48.15,27.06,11.62,5.35,3.94,0.84,1.28,0.13,0.43,0.44,0.40,0.15,0.14
German_South,41.78,22.89,16.36,6.24,9.41,1.09,0.52,0.25,0.31,0.42,0.38,0.18,0.11
German_West,44.26,23.82,14.00,6.94,7.16,0.86,0.62,0.36,0.40,0.49,0.38,0.41,0.18

General German and Austrian averages stay, don't touch them please.

add these:

Code:

German_Saxony,37.14,34.35,13.58,5.86,5.61,0.87,1.08,0.06,0.25,0.58,0.30,0.14,0.17
German_Upper_Swabia,41.54,22.90,15.28,6.77,10.64,0.68,0.72,0.27,0.41,0.34,0.39,0.00,0.05
German_Saxony-Anhalt_south,41.19,31.63,11.12,5.16,7.34,1.02,0.62,0.25,0.28,0.56,0.50,0.20,0.12
German_West_Mecklenburg,45.13,33.44,9.22,6.21,3.28,0.16,0.49,0.62,0.34,0.34,0.33,0.43,0.00
German_North_Hesse,43.69,22.35,14.83,4.48,10.49,1.78,0,0.69,0,0.86,0.22,0,0.6
German_Central_Hesse,41.92,26.21,14.96,8.9,5.73,0.87,0,0.9,0,0,0.45,0.05,0
German_South_Hesse,41.78,21.94,17.52,5.66,8.80,1.50,0.66,0.33,0.41,0.56,0.46,0.11,0.27
German_Lower_Franconia,41.02,24.79,15.76,6.57,8.84,0.72,0.67,0.15,0.00,0.82,0.04,0.53,0.08
German_North_Bohemia,38.27,31.61,13.93,5.63,7.42,0.38,0.90,0.53,0.10,0.41,0.50,0.00,0.31
German_Ore_Mountains_Saxony,39.15,31.43,12.59,6.21,7.42,1.47,0.00,0.03,0.15,0.02,0.00,1.12,0.39
German_Saarland,43.97,19.91,19.32,7.13,6.82,0.88,1.54,0.00,0.00,0.19,0.00,0.26,0.00
German_Bavaria_proper,40.02,23.94,15.40,7.03,10.46,1.26,0.35,0.29,0.25,0.58,0.36,0.04,0.00
German_Bavarian_Swabia,34.71,26.3,19.15,7.19,11.37,0,0,0,0,0.37,0.4,0,0.46
German_North_Rhine,43.32,22.19,15.70,7.63,8.21,0.71,0.91,0.15,0.26,0.14,0.38,0.26,0.15
German_North_Baden,41.05,22.09,17.19,6.37,10.17,0.35,0.68,0.38,0.58,0.17,0.53,0.28,0.16
German_East_Prussia_Memelland,29.91,52.02,10.63,3.88,0,0,1.83,0,0.81,0.58,0,0,0.34
German_East_Prussia_Masuria,33.26,44.37,9.00,4.57,3.12,0.15,2.31,0.47,0.75,0.74,0.61,0.00,0.68
German_Hither_Pomerania,44.4,31.31,9.62,7.56,4.12,0.7,0.43,0.31,0.88,0.2,0,0.48,0
German_Farther_Pomerania,39.85,37.28,9.79,5.50,2.77,1.10,1.82,0.00,0.07,0.45,0.35,1.02,0.04
Upper_Silesia,33.01,43.21,9.27,6.4,5.21,0.26,0.67,0,1.04,0.31,0.58,0,0.06
German_County_Glatz,35.77,31.04,14.63,8.13,7.64,0.3,0,1.02,0,0.72,0,0.72,0
Austrian_Upper_Austria,41.93,23.93,16.96,8.73,6.52,1.43,0,0.22,0,0,0.16,0.1,0
German_Lower_Saxony_north,50.86,28.10,10.10,5.94,2.03,0.00,1.50,0.78,0.00,0.18,0.48,0.03,0.00
German_Lower_Saxony_south,48.89,25.02,11.37,6.26,4.56,0.58,1.97,0.00,0.24,0.31,0.05,0.16,0.58
German_Westphalia,49.31,25.15,11.25,7.18,3.97,0.69,0.72,0.18,0.07,0.79,0.10,0.10,0.50
German_West_Prussia,35.60,39.30,11.20,6.60,4.18,0.25,0.89,0.00,0.68,0.34,0.47,0.00,0.48
German_Rhineland-Palatinate,42.42,21.25,16.46,7.21,8.90,1.51,0.02,0.20,1.11,0.20,0.23,0.33,0.16
Austrian_Lower_Austria,35.32,24.04,19.78,9.1,9.12,0.4,1.02,0,0,0.32,0.89,0,0
German_Hamburg,50.83,28.92,8.41,3.93,4.04,1.33,1.32,0,0.62,0.15,0,0.45,0
German_Frisian,55.45,25.92,9.33,2.93,1.79,1.02,2.22,0,0.33,0,1,0,0
German_Schleswig-Holstein,49.59,28.21,13.33,5.42,0,1.79,0,1.19,0,0,0,0,0.47
German_Brandenburg_outlier(Beeskow),26.92,44.46,14.49,5.95,6.25,0,0,0.72,0,0.17,0.74,0,0.3
Austrian_Carinthia,34.35,34.42,13.15,3.82,10.84,1.04,1.43,0,0.39,0,0.11,0.1,0

German_Saxony is German_East renamed (academic), others are new.

Happy New Year!!

I come back to the forum and I find the most exhaustive German-speaking samples to date, awesome work for both you and Rothaer! I know Germany is very large country with plenty diversity because how divided it was throughout history, so yes, I agree that many regional averages are needed even if I tend to prefer more broader generalizations. However you guys worked a lot on these and very glad we finally have representative averages. Maybe in the future you guys can also expand it with some Swiss German cantons, South Tyrol, Danube Swabians, Volga Germans and Transylvania Saxons.

**rothaer** · 01-02-2022, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Dunai

I come back to the forum and I find the most exhaustive German-speaking samples to date, awesome work for both you and Rothaer! I know Germany is very large country with plenty diversity because how divided it was throughout history, so yes, I agree that many regional averages are needed even if I tend to prefer more broader generalizations. However you guys worked a lot on these and very glad we finally have representative averages. Maybe in the future you guys can also expand it with some Swiss German cantons, South Tyrol, Danube Swabians, Volga Germans and Transylvania Saxons.

Thanks you.

It's intented to expand this also to regions like South Tyrol and Switzerland, it just lacked kits fulfilling the requirements right now. As for "German diaspora" like Transdanubia, Transsylvania Saxons, German settlers in Poland and Mennonites from Russia we have kits and data, but in the moment decided to not add them for principal reasons, because they are secondary pops and it would seem wrong to use them for modelling. You also would not use something like Chicago Germans for modelling, because they can not really be an ultimate source for anything.

But as for distances it would nevertheless interesting, I admit. Maybe Stearsolina later releases them separately.

**~~Dunai~~** · 01-02-2022, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by rothaer

Thanks you.

It's intented to expand this also to regions like South Tyrol and Switzerland, it just lacked kits fulfilling the requirements right now. As for "German diaspora" like Transdanubia, Transsylvania Saxons, German settlers in Poland and Mennonites from Russia we have kits and data, but in the moment decided to not add them for principal reasons, because they are secondary pops and it would seem wrong to use them for modelling. You also would not use something like Chicago Germans for modelling, because they can not really be an ultimate source for anything.

But as for distances it would nevertheless interesting, I admit. Maybe Stearsolina later releases them separately.

I would still encourage you to release these historical diaspora Germans since they aren't recent migrants to those territories, like the ones in the US, but live there for hundreds of years, developing their own specific cultures from mainland Germany. But no rush, since these things take time.

**Jana** · 01-02-2022, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Dunai

I would still encourage you to release these historical diaspora Germans since they aren't recent migrants to those territories, like the ones in the US, but live there for hundreds of years, developing their own specific cultures from mainland Germany. But no rush, since these things take time.

Hey, I understand your wish to see these averages, but I can explain you further why we decided not to use them. It's not even about how recent communities they are (and some are not recent at all indeed), it's about the fact they are not from singular region in Germany, but regionally mixed. Thus such averages could skew modeling for actual ethnic Germans because they could be misleading, and our aim are pure regional samples.

I mean, for both me and rothaer these averages would be welcome (I have some Danube Swabian ancestry, he has ancestry from German settlers in central Poland), and we do have kits, but really, we strongly decided against adding them to Vahaduo for reasons stated above - they will skew the modeling for other Germans.

If you wish I can send you some samples via PM or you can see German gedmatch results thread, some are posted there.

Btw: Vahaduo updated K13 sheet has existing Swiss_German average (and it looks fine). But in general usable data from Switzerland and Austria is extremely scarce and hard to get.

**~~Dunai~~** · 01-02-2022, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Stearsolina

Hey, I understand your wish to see these averages, but I can explain you further why we decided not to use them. It's not even about how recent communities they are (and some are not recent at all indeed), it's about the fact they are not from singular regions in Germany, but regionally mixed. Thus such averages could skew modeling for actual ethnic Germans because they could be misleading, and our aim are pure regional samples.

I mean, for both me and rothaer these averages would be welcome (I have some Danube Swabian ancestry, he has ancestry from German settlers in central Poland), and we do have kits, but really, we strongly decided against adding them to Vahadu for reasons stated above - they will skew the modeling for other Germans.

If you wish I can send you some samples via PM or you can see German gedmatch results thread, some are posted there.

Btw: Vahaduo has existing Swiss_German average. But in general data from Switzerland and Austria is extremely scarce and hard to get.

I can understand your reasoning even if personally I don't believe it is problematic that Danube Swabians and Transylvania Saxons are a mixture of several German regions. That's who they are, a mixture, but it doesn't mean they don't have their own identities, that they don't exist. Nowadays they are very few, since most either assimilated into Hungarians or Romanians or migrated to Germany, but before WWI they used to be well over a million in Historic Hungary. These groups would be very useful for people living in East-Central Europe, since they have direct ancestry from them and not from Germans from Germany proper. For example there are Pennsylvania Dutch and Afrikaner averages, who are also a mixture of several German and Dutch regions. I only believe it wouldn't hurt the algorithm to have them