German GEDmatch results

[Sebbo]

Which sample is genetically Baltic ???

Masurians plot exactly like Masovians (Northeast Poles). Nothing Baltic about them.

I thought it was the case that all East Prussians had some descent from the Old Prussians, be there Germanic, Slavic, or Baltic speakers.

Is that not the case?

[Leto]

Her results in August 2020 (I deleted the account that month) are as follows:

Why did you delete it? That's silly IMO. And the results are most likely not up to date.

[Sebbo]

Why did you delete it? That's silly IMO. And the results are most likely not up to date.

I wanted to see what it said and then get the raw data, my understanding is that the ethnicity estimates are not as good now as they were then anyway.

[Peterski]

(...)

Here is a German-made map showing ethnic Lithuanians ca. year 1876:

(as you can see Wilna was not Lithuanian but much of East Prussia was)

https://i.imgur.com/czoaIiW.jpg

[Leto]

Hey Piotr, why are spamming and derailing the thread so hard? It's getting out of hand. I personally would like you to leave the forum for good!

[J. Ketch]

Hmmm - "Being born in a stable does not make one a horse" - this is an Anglo-Irish proverb that I recall.

They did not consider themselves Irish, but English - despite being born in the proverbial stable (Ireland).

Also, AFAIK most of the Anglo-Irish emigrated back to England after Ireland regained independence.

That is not an Anglo-Irish proverb, it is a quote by the Irish nationalist MP Daniel O'Connell, referring to the Duke of Wellington (the British national hero) and his supposed Irishness, which was evidently taken for granted in Britain.

https://www.irishphilosophy.com/2018...ll-wellington/

Wait! Isn’t that a quote from Arthur Wellesley, the Duke of Wellington? It’s commonly thought to be so, but when it appears in recent biographies it is often with a caveat. For example, though Gregor Dallas simply reports the remark (as an example of Wellington rejecting his homeland)3, Gordon Corrigan calls the remark “apocryphal” 4 and Richard Holmes qualifies his account of how “he was to deny his Irishness” with a cautious “(so it was said)”5 Why the caution?

The caution is due to the fact that there seems to be no contemporary evidence of Wellington ever making this remark. On there other hand there is contemporary evidence O’Connell said it of Wellington. In 1844 Shaw’s Authenticated Report of the Irish State Trials, 18446 was printed. An account of Daniel O’Connell’s trial for conspiracy in January 1844, it includes evidence given of O’Connell’s speeches, including (p. 93) one given at a banquet after the Monster Meeting at Mullaghmast (near Ballitore; the meeting was held Sunday the 1st of October 1843):

The following passage in reference to the Duke of Wellington was received with great laughter: “The poor old duke what shall I say of him. To be sure he was born in Ireland, but being born in a stable does not make a man a horse.”

That can be overplayed as a feature of the Anglo-Irish class. Anglo-Irish people found that while they might be regarded as English in Ireland, they would be regarded as Irish in England. They might call themselves Irish on some occasions and English or British on others. Identity was fluid and contingent. Over the 18th century there was an increasing identification of the Anglo-Irish with Ireland (see this post), which was identifiable in Grattan’s parliament of 1793-18019.

This clearly is not the only view of what it means to be Irish. The image at the top of this post shows that, in the year O’Connell made his famous remark, a political cartoonist believed depicting Wellington as an Irish chieftain would make sense to the British public. The detailed account of O’Connell’s trial shows O’Connell denied that Wellington was Irish in answer to a voice saying of Wellington, “He is a bad Irishman.”13. Wellington was, therefore, even in Repeal circles, still regarded as Irish.

I don't know about most Anglo-Irish re-emigrating to England after Independence, regardless, they were considered Irish in England, and the native Irish would never have been claimed as English just because they spoke it. This isn't Central Europe.

[Peterski]

I don't know about most Anglo-Irish re-emigrating to England after Independence

I saw maps showing how much Protestantism declined in Ireland after independence, how to explain it if not by mass emigration of Protestants?

[J. Ketch]

I saw maps showing how much Protestantism declined in Ireland after independence, how to explain it if not by emigration of Protestants?

I'm sure many did emigrate, not just to England, also to the rest of the Empire, or just internally to Ulster. Anyway you're going off on a side issue, I corrected you.

[Jana]

No, I'm not different than other Poles from my region and I plot like other Western Poles in Global25, and within the Polish cluster.

Lucas lives in Torun (Kujawsko-Pomorskie), but he is an immigrant there. Indigenous Poles from Kujawsko-Pomorskie plot like me.

He is mostly Central Polish as far as I know and he is highly (almost fully) early Slavic. You admitted having German surname on your maternal side.

[Peterski]

He is mostly Central Polish as far as I know and he is highly Slavic.

He is mostly from Masovia (around Płock) based on his recent genealogy thread here:

https://slawomirambroziak.pl/forum/i...p?topic=5345.0

You admitted having German surname on your maternal side.

And I tested (autosomal + Y-DNA) my maternal grandpa's brother with this surname.

He turned out to be autosomally more eastern-shifted, and Y-DNA is R1a. Surprising?

Here his coordinates if you want to check (there is some southern admixture as well):

Wladyslaw_Meller_scaled,0.124067,0.125926,0.069767,0.059755,0.040007,0.023427,0.00893,0.009,0.007158,-0.024602,-0.003735,-0.006444,0.013082,0.017203,-0.012622,0.006099,-0.001434,-0.000633,0.004148,0.013006,-0.002496,-0.005564,0.008134,0.004699,-0.005149

^^^
Check him with your model, I'm curious (probably will be high amount of Greco-Roman).