Gedmatch calculators on Vahaduo

[Peterski]

Are they mixed with mainland Italians? The Carloforte folks. The island is administered by Sardinia but they don't score it as their first pop.

They basically are mainland Italians. Their ancestors were from the town of Pegli in Liguria:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegli - nowadays a suburb of Genoa

In 1541 they left Pegli and settled on the island of Tabarca near Tunisia, to fish for coral:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabarca - they lived here for almost 200 years

Tabarka Island in the 1600s:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabarka#History



In the 1730s coral deposits near Tabarca were exhausted and they had to move again.

They found coral near San Pietro Island & asked King of Piedmont-Sardinia to move there.

Finally they settled in San Pietro Island in 1739 and established the town of Carloforte.

Carloforte is named after King Carlo (Charles) Emmanuel III who let them settle there.

=====

It seems that they have not mixed much with Sardinians, only a little bit.

[MoroLP]

Please replace Croatian averages with the following:

Croat,28.08,33.07,15.25,7.68,12.16,1.27,0.55,0.27,0.52,0.55,0.40,0.14,0.11
Croat_Dalmatia,26.36,31.49,16.09,8.84,13.31,1.57,0.44,0.30,0.54,0.48,0.35,0.10,0.11
Croat_Bosnia,26.51,32.35,15.57,8.02,13.77,1.43,0.59,0.29,0.49,0.48,0.34,0.10,0.07
Croat_Herzegovina,24.93,32.69,15.99,8.60,14.10,1.28,0.55,0.19,0.55,0.48,0.40,0.04,0.11
Croat_Lika,27.50,32.41,15.69,7.72,12.86,1.28,0.35,0.19,0.69,0.56,0.55,0.08,0.12
Croat_Istria,27.52,31.63,15.79,7.79,13.90,1.06,0.52,0.38,0.48,0.37,0.35,0.18,0.05
Croat_Kvarner,28.57,32.45,14.23,8.28,12.57,1.24,0.49,0.36,0.68,0.23,0.43,0.13,0.12
Croat_GorskiKotar,31.45,32.69,14.41,7.40,10.30,1.19,0.67,0.29,0.54,0.52,0.30,0.13,0.11
Croat_Slavonia,26.53,33.17,15.98,7.53,13.91,0.80,0.77,0.17,0.51,0.56,0.43,0.02,0.07
Croat_Central,29.40,34.03,14.89,7.02,10.88,1.28,0.52,0.22,0.47,0.45,0.41,0.24,0.13
Croat_Northwest,31.23,34.80,13.68,6.85,8.93,1.29,0.54,0.44,0.50,0.97,0.41,0.20,0.16

[Jana]

Distance to: Croat

1.24855917 Croat_Lika
1.52797251 Croat_Kvarner
2.21226129 Croat_Central
2.30796447 Hungarian_Alföld
2.41190796 Croat_Istria
2.41528466 Croat_Bosnia
2.51531310 Croat_Slavonia
2.99013378 Croat_Dalmatia
3.28003049 Hungarian
3.40313091 Bosniak_Central_Northeast
3.53619852 Bosniak_Krajina_East
3.90471510 Croat_Herzegovina
3.94194115 Bosniak
3.95455434 Bosniak_Krajina_West
3.97209013 Croat_Gorski_Kotar
4.23433584 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
4.62671590 Csángó-Ceangău
4.63364867 Serb_Republika_Srpska
4.64534175 Hungarian_North
4.77980125 Romanian_North-Moldavia
4.80205164 Moldovan_North
4.85635666 Austrian_Carinthia
4.98188719 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
5.16860716 Croat_Northwest
5.31161934 Slovene

[Jana]

Distance to: Croat_Dalmatia

1.40103533 Croat_Bosnia
1.79008380 Croat_Istria
1.88584199 Serb_Republika_Srpska
1.98408669 Croat_Lika
2.04763278 Bosniak
2.07149704 Croat_Herzegovina
2.32038790 Romanian_North-Moldavia
2.38325408 Croat_Slavonia
2.66078936 Bosniak_Krajina_West
2.73384345 Serb_Croatia
2.99013378 Croat
3.04983606 Romanian_Maramureș
3.08176897 Serb_West
3.16311555 Bosniak_Southeast
3.21418730 Croat_Kvarner
3.51262010 Moldovan_Central
3.53385059 Serb
3.55066191 Bosniak_Krajina_East
3.61293509 Moldovan
4.02385387 Serb_Central
4.08626969 Csángó-Ceangău
4.09086788 Moldovan_North
4.24178029 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
4.28856619 Bosniak_Central_Northeast
4.37170447 Serb_Vojvodina

Distance to: Croat_Bosnia

1.25123939 Croat_Slavonia
1.35118467 Croat_Istria
1.40103533 Croat_Dalmatia
1.44903416 Croat_Lika
1.81113224 Croat_Herzegovina
1.93134668 Bosniak
2.41528466 Croat
2.48219661 Serb_Republika_Srpska
2.65697196 Bosniak_Krajina_West
2.75163588 Romanian_North-Moldavia
2.77811087 Croat_Kvarner
3.28779561 Serb_Croatia
3.51055551 Bosniak_Southeast
3.57937145 Bosniak_Central_Northeast
3.62818136 Bosniak_Krajina_East
3.85151918 Moldovan_Central
3.91117629 Moldovan_North
3.93357344 Romanian_Maramureș
3.98035174 Moldovan
4.00012500 Serb_West
4.25690028 Serb
4.40082947 Serb_Central
4.55008791 Hungarian_Alföld
4.58810418 Croat_Central
4.76581577 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely

Distance to: Croat_Herzegovina

0.98096891 Bosniak
1.63966460 Serb_Republika_Srpska
1.81113224 Croat_Bosnia
2.06436431 Croat_Slavonia
2.07149704 Croat_Dalmatia
2.35985169 Romanian_North-Moldavia
2.77834483 Moldovan
2.78797417 Moldovan_Central
2.94888114 Croat_Istria
2.95465734 Bosniak_Southeast
3.01330383 Serb_Croatia
3.02910878 Croat_Lika
3.14093935 Moldovan_North
3.54216036 Bosniak_Krajina_East
3.65282083 Bosniak_Central_Northeast
3.70956871 Bosniak_Krajina_West
3.73368451 Serb
3.82536273 Serb_West
3.90471510 Croat
4.02888322 Serb_Central
4.16941243 Romanian_Maramureș
4.35553671 Croat_Kvarner
4.62725621 Serb_Vojvodina
5.32472535 Serb_Herzegovina
5.55843503 Serb_South

Distance to: Croat_Lika

1.24855917 Croat
1.39778396 Croat_Istria
1.44903416 Croat_Bosnia
1.78921771 Croat_Slavonia
1.96260032 Croat_Kvarner
1.98408669 Croat_Dalmatia
3.02910878 Croat_Herzegovina
3.04276190 Bosniak_Krajina_West
3.17474408 Bosniak
3.29899985 Hungarian_Alföld
3.37940823 Croat_Central
3.54897168 Serb_Republika_Srpska
3.61643471 Bosniak_Krajina_East
3.74611799 Bosniak_Central_Northeast
3.81342366 Romanian_North-Moldavia
4.21308675 Hungarian
4.30562423 Csángó-Ceangău
4.31064960 Serb_Croatia
4.42909697 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
4.57788161 Moldovan_North
4.60322713 Romanian_Maramureș
4.67609880 Bosniak_Southeast
4.71971397 Serb_West
4.91782472 Croat_Gorski_Kotar
4.99406648 Moldovan_Central

Distance to: Croat_Istria

1.35118467 Croat_Bosnia
1.39778396 Croat_Lika
1.79008380 Croat_Dalmatia
1.89425447 Bosniak_Krajina_West
1.92330445 Croat_Slavonia
2.41190796 Croat
2.51487574 Croat_Kvarner
2.94888114 Croat_Herzegovina
3.06577886 Serb_Republika_Srpska
3.11891007 Bosniak
3.34110760 Romanian_North-Moldavia
3.35498137 Serb_Croatia
3.69314229 Romanian_Maramureș
3.82393776 Bosniak_Southeast
3.85114269 Serb_West
3.99147842 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
4.30204602 Hungarian_Alföld
4.35298748 Serb
4.43132034 Serb_Central
4.46226400 Croat_Central
4.47631545 Csángó-Ceangău
4.58772275 Bosniak_Krajina_East
4.61675211 Bosniak_Central_Northeast
4.70088290 Moldovan_Central
4.83045547 Moldovan

Distance to: Croat_Kvarner

1.52797251 Croat
1.96260032 Croat_Lika
2.51487574 Croat_Istria
2.56526802 Hungarian_Alföld
2.77811087 Croat_Bosnia
2.86213207 Croat_Central
3.15180900 Hungarian
3.21418730 Croat_Dalmatia
3.24978461 Croat_Slavonia
3.47982758 Bosniak_Krajina_West
3.80423448 Croat_Gorski_Kotar
3.92782382 Bosniak_Central_Northeast
4.03659510 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
4.19909514 Bosniak
4.33049651 Csángó-Ceangău
4.35553671 Croat_Herzegovina
4.39461034 Bosniak_Krajina_East
4.39621428 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
4.65478249 Romanian_North-Moldavia
4.79842683 Austrian_Carinthia
4.87201190 Hungarian_North
4.87635109 Serb_Republika_Srpska
5.03535500 Moldovan_North
5.33459464 Romanian_Maramureș
5.36594819 Croat_Northwest

Distance to: Croat_Gorski_Kotar

0.96400207 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
1.31068684 Hungarian
1.58306664 Austrian_Carinthia
2.34397099 Hungarian_Alföld
2.46633331 Slovene
2.60368969 Croat_Central
2.73601901 Croat_Northwest
3.44132242 Hungarian_North
3.60118036 Austrian_Styria
3.80423448 Croat_Kvarner
3.97209013 Croat
4.91782472 Croat_Lika
5.41361247 Slovak
5.62116536 German_County_Glatz
5.62736173 Croat_Istria
5.85011111 Csángó-Ceangău
6.13110920 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
6.19373070 Croat_Bosnia
6.24929596 Czech
6.26597159 German_Lower_Silesia
6.33721548 Croat_Slavonia
6.34093053 Lemko_Poland
6.44256160 Croat_Dalmatia
6.58604585 Bosniak_Central_Northeast
6.60611838 Bosniak_Krajina_West

Distance to: Croat_Slavonia

1.25123939 Croat_Bosnia
1.78921771 Croat_Lika
1.92330445 Croat_Istria
2.06436431 Croat_Herzegovina
2.38325408 Croat_Dalmatia
2.51531310 Croat
2.55955074 Bosniak
3.06540373 Serb_Republika_Srpska
3.24978461 Croat_Kvarner
3.33456144 Bosniak_Krajina_West
3.43215676 Bosniak_Central_Northeast
3.63470769 Romanian_North-Moldavia
3.84745370 Bosniak_Krajina_East
3.96930724 Serb_Croatia
4.11117988 Bosniak_Southeast
4.21757039 Moldovan_North
4.46845611 Croat_Central
4.51129693 Moldovan_Central
4.60977223 Moldovan
4.66479367 Hungarian_Alföld
4.66842586 Serb_West
4.88882399 Romanian_Maramureș
4.90350895 Serb
4.99060117 Serb_Central
5.57331140 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely

Distance to: Croat_Central

1.46621963 Hungarian_Alföld
2.14883689 Hungarian
2.21226129 Croat
2.60368969 Croat_Gorski_Kotar
2.75896720 Hungarian_North
2.86213207 Croat_Kvarner
2.89428748 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
3.09192497 Croat_Northwest
3.16257806 Austrian_Carinthia
3.22347638 Slovene
3.37940823 Croat_Lika
4.37223055 Lemko_Poland
4.40917226 Bosniak_Central_Northeast
4.46226400 Croat_Istria
4.46845611 Croat_Slavonia
4.58810418 Croat_Bosnia
4.72419305 Bosniak_Krajina_East
4.98632129 Slovak
5.14556119 Croat_Dalmatia
5.50817574 Ukrainian_Carpathians
5.80289583 Csángó-Ceangău
5.89964406 Bosniak_Krajina_West
5.93588241 Austrian_Styria
5.99173598 Croat_Herzegovina
6.01993355 Bosniak

Distance to: Croat_Northwest

1.73591474 Slovene
2.06995169 Hungarian_North
2.65670849 Austrian_Carinthia
2.71000000 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
2.73601901 Croat_Gorski_Kotar
2.79749888 Slovak
2.99751564 Hungarian
3.09192497 Croat_Central
3.38659121 Hungarian_Alföld
3.93206053 Czech
4.45887878 German_Lower_Silesia
4.70651676 Austrian_Styria
4.85287544 Lemko_Poland
5.16860716 Croat
5.36594819 Croat_Kvarner
5.97901330 Ukrainian_Carpathians
6.34077282 Croat_Lika
6.42953342 German_County_Glatz
6.49850752 Ukrainian_Galicia
6.67619652 Bosniak_Central_Northeast
7.05573526 Bosniak_Krajina_East
7.36769978 Croat_Istria
7.46106561 German_Thuringia_East
7.47493813 Croat_Slavonia
7.54687352 Croat_Bosnia

[MoroLP]

Distance to: Croat

1.24855917 Croat_Lika
1.52797251 Croat_Kvarner
2.21226129 Croat_Central
2.30796447 Hungarian_Alföld
2.41190796 Croat_Istria
2.41528466 Croat_Bosnia
2.51531310 Croat_Slavonia
2.99013378 Croat_Dalmatia
3.28003049 Hungarian
3.40313091 Bosniak_Central_Northeast
3.53619852 Bosniak_Krajina_East
3.90471510 Croat_Herzegovina
3.94194115 Bosniak
3.95455434 Bosniak_Krajina_West
3.97209013 Croat_Gorski_Kotar
4.23433584 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
4.62671590 Csángó-Ceangău
4.63364867 Serb_Republika_Srpska
4.64534175 Hungarian_North
4.77980125 Romanian_North-Moldavia
4.80205164 Moldovan_North
4.85635666 Austrian_Carinthia
4.98188719 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
5.16860716 Croat_Northwest
5.31161934 Slovene

Vahaduo PCA - important to notice Croatian_Northern and Croatian_Southern subnational genetic clusters. They are made of regional averages North and South of the Croatian national average. More specifically, Chakavian and Western Shtokavian Croats make a single genetic cluster. Chakavian Croats are not closer to Kajkavian Croats. Bosniaks as Western Shtokavian speakers have averages that are mostly much closer to Chakavian and Western Shtokavian Croats as well as Croatian_Southern than to Eastern Shtokavian Serbian or Montenegrin regional and national averages.

[Jana]

Vahaduo PCA

Looks fine

[rothaer]

Yes, I have seen collections of Balkan results from the same village or micro-region where a component can have a range of 9, 10, or even 11.

That's simply how fully intermixed populations act in genetic software, including G25.

Big immigration centres with free intermarriage have even bigger ranges.

She has a rural ancestry. Deviations from neighboring Saxony (we don't yet have any for Brandenburg in general) values for North Atlantic and Baltic are 9 and 14 respectively and from neighboring Lower Silesia 7 and 8 respectively and from neighboring Northwest Brandenburg 15 and 13 respectively. (I know, this does not necessarly mean she is outside of the range (told by you) for the local population. But I consider that range very big for an population, intermarrying for centuries).

Well, I'll be extremely curious for another kit from the Beeskow area.

[rothaer]

Yes, I was asking whether in the case of that woman her German was undetectable by Gedmatch because it was initially heavily Eastern European. 1/8 is not a lot, unless it's Chinese, black or Amerindian. (..)

Exactly. I guess it's essentially undetectable in a Russian context. In a context of 7/8 Chinese it would likely be fully visible.

[Peterski]

Carloforte in K13:

Carloforte1,32.40,11.21,26.71,7.13,16.52,3.32,0.02,0.58,1.37,0,0,0.74,0
Carloforte10,29.58,8.13,25.17,10,22.66,1.64,0,0,0.65,0,0.45,1.72,0
Carloforte11,29.17,11.05,24.66,8.89,20.40,3.65,0,1.04,0.33,0,0,0,0.79
Carloforte12,34.11,5.54,31.73,7.14,17.92,3.33,0,0,0.23,0,0,0,0
Carloforte13,27.86,12.67,24.16,6.07,23.87,3.97,0,0,0.34,0.24,0.57,0,0.26
Carloforte14,26.40,9.18,34.21,3.27,22.22,3.95,0,0.67,0,0,0.10,0,0
Carloforte15,30.04,9.17,26.07,12.17,19.33,0.45,1.48,0,1.29,0,0,0,0
Carloforte16,31.74,6.29,25.52,7.60,24.75,2.82,0.48,0.21,0.42,0.17,0,0,0
Carloforte17,27.62,9.60,28.36,10.03,20.72,3.13,0,0,0.08,0.44,0.02,0,0
Carloforte18,29.91,5.33,31.81,6.74,20.03,3.86,0,0,2.00,0.17,0,0,0.15
Carloforte19,29.96,5.89,30.42,8.64,17.99,3.90,0,0,1.39,1.12,0,0.40,0.30
Carloforte2,28.54,6.71,29.76,6.00,23.34,3.00,0.38,0,0,1.42,0,0,0.86
Carloforte20,27.47,14.74,23.21,7.97,18.24,5.02,2.17,0,0,0,1.00,0.19,0
Carloforte21,25.82,11.77,27.98,7.12,21.69,3.51,0.28,0,0.44,0.02,1.02,0,0.34
Carloforte22,28.20,10.80,29.97,7.19,18.33,3.45,0.97,1.09,0,0,0,0,0
Carloforte23,31.80,10.55,28.25,7.87,17.12,1.69,1.03,0.26,0,0,0.94,0,0.49
Carloforte24,28.45,4.03,32.59,7.80,22.90,2.75,0,0,0,0,1.47,0,0
Carloforte25,27.17,10.05,26.95,7.58,21.86,3.90,1.14,0,0,0,0,1.36,0
Carloforte3,29.62,8.20,29.44,10.27,18.91,2.32,0.56,0,0.12,0,0,0,0.55
Carloforte4,36.26,8.15,21.86,15.26,15.39,3.07,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
Carloforte5,29.89,14.46,23.19,6.30,20.28,3.64,0.67,0.11,0,0.24,0.40,0,0.81
Carloforte6,24.38,15.23,28.05,8.17,19.04,2.70,0,0,0.63,0.99,0.30,0.50,0
Carloforte7,24.93,10.25,34.71,7.32,19.80,1.03,0,0.63,0,0.61,0.57,0,0.15
Carloforte8,27.38,6.97,29.31,13.55,19.03,2.59,0,0.90,0,0.25,0,0.02,0
Carloforte9,32.25,7.67,25.71,8.55,21.85,3.26,0.01,0,0,0,0.69,0,0

Ranges for components:

North Atlantic - 24.38 to 36.26

Baltic - 4.03 to 15.23

West Med - 21.86 to 34.71

West Asian - 3.27 to 15.26

East Med - 15.39 to 24.75

Red Sea - 0.45 to 5.02

Etc.

[vbnetkhio]

She has a rural ancestry. Deviations from neighboring Saxony (we don't yet have any for Brandenburg in general) values for North Atlantic and Baltic are 9 and 14 respectively and from neighboring Lower Silesia 7 and 8 respectively and from neighboring Northwest Brandenburg 15 and 13 respectively. (I know, this does not necessarly mean she is outside of the range (told by you) for the local population. But I consider that range very big for an population, intermarrying for centuries).

Well, I'll be extremely curious for another kit from the Beeskow area.

what are the North Atlantic and Baltic ranges for Saxony and Thuringia? I guess something like Baltic 30-40, NA 33-43?