German GEDmatch results

[Peterski]

So do we have Kashubian samples? That would be interesting.

Yes. Here a couple of examples (and later probably I will post some more):

First example:


Admix Results (sorted):


# Population Percent
1 Baltic 44.89
2 North_Atlantic 36.64
3 West_Med 7.88
4 West_Asian 3.58
5 East_Med 2.08
6 Red_Sea 1.29
7 Siberian 1.15
8 Sub-Saharan 0.8
9 Amerindian 0.59
10 Oceanian 0.58
11 East_Asian 0.3
12 South_Asian 0.16
13 Northeast_African 0.05


Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 Southwest_Finnish 4.97
2 Polish 6.41
3 Estonian 6.96
4 Finnish 7.44
5 South_Polish 7.94
6 Belorussian 7.96
7 Russian_Smolensk 8.54
8 Estonian_Polish 8.81
9 Ukrainian 9.59
10 Ukrainian_Lviv 10.2
11 North_Swedish 10.55
12 Lithuanian 10.57
13 Southwest_Russian 10.67
14 East_Finnish 10.88
15 Ukrainian_Belgorod 11.12
16 Kargopol_Russian 12.49
17 East_German 13.62
18 La_Brana-1 14.37
19 Croatian 14.8
20 Hungarian 15.17


Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 60.6% Lithuanian + 39.4% Swedish @ 1.53
2 64.9% Lithuanian + 35.1% Norwegian @ 1.65
3 50.1% North_Swedish + 49.9% Lithuanian @ 1.75
4 66.3% Lithuanian + 33.7% North_Dutch @ 1.77
5 70% Lithuanian + 30% West_Scottish @ 1.89
6 68.4% Lithuanian + 31.6% Orcadian @ 1.91
7 66.1% Lithuanian + 33.9% Danish @ 1.99
8 69.3% Lithuanian + 30.7% Irish @ 2.08
9 57.4% Belorussian + 42.6% North_Swedish @ 2.24
10 73.7% Estonian + 26.3% North_German @ 2.29
11 70.8% Lithuanian + 29.2% Southwest_English @ 2.29
12 69.4% Lithuanian + 30.6% Southeast_English @ 2.33
13 64.1% Lithuanian + 35.9% North_German @ 2.36
14 75.8% Estonian + 24.2% North_Dutch @ 2.42
15 67.8% Belorussian + 32.2% Swedish @ 2.44
16 75.6% Estonian + 24.4% Danish @ 2.54
17 54.8% Estonian_Polish + 45.2% North_Swedish @ 2.54
18 78.3% Estonian + 21.7% Southeast_English @ 2.56
19 79.5% Estonian + 20.5% Southwest_English @ 2.61
20 71.2% Estonian + 28.8% Swedish @ 2.63

Second example:


Admix Results (sorted):


# Population Percent
1 Baltic 42.08
2 North_Atlantic 35.54
3 West_Asian 7.17
4 East_Med 6.64
5 West_Med 5.82
6 Amerindian 1.09
7 Red_Sea 0.8
8 Oceanian 0.38
9 Northeast_African 0.28
10 Siberian 0.17
11 South_Asian 0.02


Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Polish 6.65
2 Polish 7.45
3 Southwest_Finnish 8.64
4 Ukrainian 9.18
5 Ukrainian_Lviv 9.31
6 Belorussian 9.33
7 Russian_Smolensk 9.51
8 Southwest_Russian 10.02
9 Ukrainian_Belgorod 10.09
10 Estonian_Polish 10.24
11 Finnish 10.76
12 Estonian 10.91
13 North_Swedish 11.51
14 Hungarian 11.89
15 East_German 12.04
16 Croatian 12.24
17 Lithuanian 13.18
18 Austrian 13.63
19 Kargopol_Russian 13.78
20 East_Finnish 13.89


Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 66.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 33.5% Norwegian @ 3.79
2 62.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 37.5% Swedish @ 3.82
3 66.3% Belorussian + 33.7% North_German @ 3.86
4 66.8% Southwest_Russian + 33.2% Norwegian @ 3.92
5 62.7% Southwest_Russian + 37.3% Swedish @ 3.97
6 67.2% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 32.8% Danish @ 4.05
7 53.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 46.2% North_Swedish @ 4.05
8 67.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 32.3% North_Dutch @ 4.08
9 67.5% Southwest_Russian + 32.5% Danish @ 4.19
10 69.4% Belorussian + 30.6% Danish @ 4.19
11 68% Southwest_Russian + 32% North_Dutch @ 4.2
12 69.9% Belorussian + 30.1% North_Dutch @ 4.23
13 64.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 35.5% North_German @ 4.24
14 64.7% Southwest_Russian + 35.3% North_German @ 4.27
15 69.1% Belorussian + 30.9% Norwegian @ 4.36
16 66.3% Russian_Smolensk + 33.7% North_German @ 4.4
17 72% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 28% West_Scottish @ 4.45
18 54.2% Southwest_Russian + 45.8% North_Swedish @ 4.46
19 65.3% Belorussian + 34.7% Swedish @ 4.49
20 73.3% Belorussian + 26.7% Irish @ 4.51

[Smitty]

Yes. Here a couple of examples (and later I will post some more):

First example:


Admix Results (sorted):


# Population Percent
1 Baltic 44.89
2 North_Atlantic 36.64
3 West_Med 7.88
4 West_Asian 3.58
5 East_Med 2.08
6 Red_Sea 1.29
7 Siberian 1.15
8 Sub-Saharan 0.8
9 Amerindian 0.59
10 Oceanian 0.58
11 East_Asian 0.3
12 South_Asian 0.16
13 Northeast_African 0.05


Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 Southwest_Finnish 4.97
2 Polish 6.41
3 Estonian 6.96
4 Finnish 7.44
5 South_Polish 7.94
6 Belorussian 7.96
7 Russian_Smolensk 8.54
8 Estonian_Polish 8.81
9 Ukrainian 9.59
10 Ukrainian_Lviv 10.2
11 North_Swedish 10.55
12 Lithuanian 10.57
13 Southwest_Russian 10.67
14 East_Finnish 10.88
15 Ukrainian_Belgorod 11.12
16 Kargopol_Russian 12.49
17 East_German 13.62
18 La_Brana-1 14.37
19 Croatian 14.8
20 Hungarian 15.17


Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 60.6% Lithuanian + 39.4% Swedish @ 1.53
2 64.9% Lithuanian + 35.1% Norwegian @ 1.65
3 50.1% North_Swedish + 49.9% Lithuanian @ 1.75
4 66.3% Lithuanian + 33.7% North_Dutch @ 1.77
5 70% Lithuanian + 30% West_Scottish @ 1.89
6 68.4% Lithuanian + 31.6% Orcadian @ 1.91
7 66.1% Lithuanian + 33.9% Danish @ 1.99
8 69.3% Lithuanian + 30.7% Irish @ 2.08
9 57.4% Belorussian + 42.6% North_Swedish @ 2.24
10 73.7% Estonian + 26.3% North_German @ 2.29
11 70.8% Lithuanian + 29.2% Southwest_English @ 2.29
12 69.4% Lithuanian + 30.6% Southeast_English @ 2.33
13 64.1% Lithuanian + 35.9% North_German @ 2.36
14 75.8% Estonian + 24.2% North_Dutch @ 2.42
15 67.8% Belorussian + 32.2% Swedish @ 2.44
16 75.6% Estonian + 24.4% Danish @ 2.54
17 54.8% Estonian_Polish + 45.2% North_Swedish @ 2.54
18 78.3% Estonian + 21.7% Southeast_English @ 2.56
19 79.5% Estonian + 20.5% Southwest_English @ 2.61
20 71.2% Estonian + 28.8% Swedish @ 2.63

Second example:


Admix Results (sorted):


# Population Percent
1 Baltic 42.08
2 North_Atlantic 35.54
3 West_Asian 7.17
4 East_Med 6.64
5 West_Med 5.82
6 Amerindian 1.09
7 Red_Sea 0.8
8 Oceanian 0.38
9 Northeast_African 0.28
10 Siberian 0.17
11 South_Asian 0.02


Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Polish 6.65
2 Polish 7.45
3 Southwest_Finnish 8.64
4 Ukrainian 9.18
5 Ukrainian_Lviv 9.31
6 Belorussian 9.33
7 Russian_Smolensk 9.51
8 Southwest_Russian 10.02
9 Ukrainian_Belgorod 10.09
10 Estonian_Polish 10.24
11 Finnish 10.76
12 Estonian 10.91
13 North_Swedish 11.51
14 Hungarian 11.89
15 East_German 12.04
16 Croatian 12.24
17 Lithuanian 13.18
18 Austrian 13.63
19 Kargopol_Russian 13.78
20 East_Finnish 13.89


Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 66.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 33.5% Norwegian @ 3.79
2 62.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 37.5% Swedish @ 3.82
3 66.3% Belorussian + 33.7% North_German @ 3.86
4 66.8% Southwest_Russian + 33.2% Norwegian @ 3.92
5 62.7% Southwest_Russian + 37.3% Swedish @ 3.97
6 67.2% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 32.8% Danish @ 4.05
7 53.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 46.2% North_Swedish @ 4.05
8 67.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 32.3% North_Dutch @ 4.08
9 67.5% Southwest_Russian + 32.5% Danish @ 4.19
10 69.4% Belorussian + 30.6% Danish @ 4.19
11 68% Southwest_Russian + 32% North_Dutch @ 4.2
12 69.9% Belorussian + 30.1% North_Dutch @ 4.23
13 64.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 35.5% North_German @ 4.24
14 64.7% Southwest_Russian + 35.3% North_German @ 4.27
15 69.1% Belorussian + 30.9% Norwegian @ 4.36
16 66.3% Russian_Smolensk + 33.7% North_German @ 4.4
17 72% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 28% West_Scottish @ 4.45
18 54.2% Southwest_Russian + 45.8% North_Swedish @ 4.46
19 65.3% Belorussian + 34.7% Swedish @ 4.49
20 73.3% Belorussian + 26.7% Irish @ 4.51

Yeah, very similar. Thank you. So should Kashubs be considered an ethnic group unto themselves, especially since they seem to be genetically distinct from their neighbors? And does this 1/3 Germanic represent older Germanic admixture (late middle Ages) or more recent German admixture (17th-19th centuries)?

[Peterski]

Why doesn't the Lauenburg/Stolp kit that Rothaer shared earlier work for your mom? It is more Germanic?

BTW this kit shared by Creoda is also mostly from Lauenburg and Stolp + minor Rummelsburg & Schlawe.

[Smitty]

Why doesn't the Lauenburg/Stolp kit that Rothaer shared earlier work for your mom? It is more Germanic?

BTW this kit shared by Creoda is also mostly from Lauenburg and Stolp + minor Rummelsburg & Schlawe.

Yeah, more Germanic.

[Peterski]

Yeah, very similar. Thank you. So should Kashubs be considered an ethnic group unto themselves, especially since they seem to be genetically distinct from their neighbors?

I don't think that Kashubs vs. other Poles are more different from each other than Lower Saxony's Germans vs. Bavarian Germans - for example.

Mazovians would also have to be counted as a separate ethnic group in such case, for example (because they are quite different than other Poles).

And the capital of Poland is in Mazovia as you know. So our capital is in a territory of another ethnic group? Doesn't make sense.

Personally I lean towards counting all Lechitic Slavs as one ethnos, with internal differences still smaller than internal differences between Germans.

BTW, I added one of those Kashubians posted above (the other one did not reply to my email) to Global25, he is the Kashubian reference in G25.

As you can see, he plots close to sample Polish18 (so maybe this sample is from NW Poland as well) and to Polish Medieval samples from Bodzia:

https://vahaduo.github.io/g25views/#NorthEurope

And does this 1/3 Germanic represent older Germanic admixture (late middle Ages) or more recent German admixture (17th-19th centuries)?

It can even be from Pre-Medieval Iron Age, depending on views on the ethnic situation in in this region in antiquity (the presence of Goths etc.).

Maybe Y-DNA haplogroups could give some hints?

Kashubians have more of I1 than of R1b, so their Germanic input does seem to be mostly from East Germanic tribes of the Iron Age.

Because modern Germans don't have so much I1.

Unless there was some sort of a founder effect?

[Peterski]

As expected, Creoda's kit from Lauenburg-Stolp-Rummelsburg-Schlawe is most similar (87) to Kashubs, then to Wielkopolska (86):

(I mean, as expected by me - and it turns out I was right - some others did not expect so very Slavic genetics in this region )

[rothaer]

As expected, Creoda's kit from Lauenburg-Stolp-Rummelsburg-Schlawe is most similar (87) to Kashubs, then to Wielkopolska (86):

(I mean, as expected by me - and it turns out I was right - some others did not expect so very Slavic genetics in this region )

Who thought something else? What you do celebrate as a kind of new finding is essentially banal.

And do you want to declare this average ethnic German from Eastern Farther Pomerania a non-German?



If you stick to that - sorry - oddball opinon, then you should be consequent and say that in your understanding it were not Germans that put down the Warsaw uprising by Erich v. d. Bach-Zelewski, but Poles themselves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_..._Bach-Zelewski

Are you now adopting the name of a German (Piotraschke) as your nick name? He would likely also have gifted you a bullet in 1944.

[Peterski]

average ethnic German from Eastern Farther Pomerania

Maybe not so average, people are telling me that the Lauenburg-Stolp kit that you & Stearsolina found is more western-shifted.

the name of a German (Piotraschke)

It exists among ethnic Poles/Kashubians living in this region today - http://nlp.actaforte.pl:8080/Nomina/...ko=Piotraschke

When you google-search Piotraschke, the first result is a Polish athlete from AML Słupsk:

https://statystyka.pzla.pl/personal...._zaw=15298&r=2 - Paweł

http://aml.slupsk.pl/

as your nick name?

Piotraschke (formerly Peterska) from Markgrafpieske.

[Peterski]

Piotraschke surname in Poland today based on PESEL database - 87.5% of them live in Słupsk County:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C5%82upsk_County

[rothaer]

Maybe not so average, people are telling me that the Lauenburg-Stolp kit that you & Stearsolina found is more western-shifted.

It exists among ethnic Poles/Kashubians living in this region today - http://nlp.actaforte.pl:8080/Nomina/...ko=Piotraschke

When you google-search Piotraschke, the first result is a Polish athlete from AML Słupsk:

https://statystyka.pzla.pl/personal...._zaw=15298&r=2 - Paweł

http://aml.slupsk.pl/

Piotraschke (formerly Peterska) from Markgrafpieske.

I did not yet get, what's behind Markgrafpieske.

Yes, Piotraschke will exist among Poles as well as Krause.

As for the genetic in Farther Pomerania: I thought about to making an own average for Lauenburg-Stolp-Bütow area (we once talked about that). This is more Slavic and deviates from the Farther Pomerania average. BUT: Western Farther Pomerania deviates as well in the other direction and the middle of Farther Pomerania seems in between genetically. So based on the current available kits it looks like a continuum with a cline. From such a thing you could split off whatever part and have a different average. So if there would be split off Lauenburg-Stolp-Bütow right now would make the impression of a different genetic for a particular area while it in fact just is part of a continuum.

But the more narrow ancestry for every kit is saved, so there can be made re-gropupings at any time. I'm willing to da a split off as soon as I see that there is anything else than a contiuunm. Or even if there is just a continuum, if such subdivisiona are suitable and made in an equal manner. I'm not sure if this is appreciated by the users and Leto already complained about all thies German averages are already being too fine grained. Would it be interesting to divide Farther Pomerania into west, central and east, the latter being basically Lauenburg-Bütow-Stolp? If so, it would be needed one or two more kits for Central Farther Pomerania.