Brand new genetic study on the origins of Huns, Avars and Hungarian Conquerors

[Leto]

I have never said that.

I'm pretty sure you did say something along those lines. That language and identity is much more important and you don't even believe in genetics that much.
Listen, I'm one of the most conservative members here (I just don't care to talk about that because I don't find this place worthy enough) but I always laugh at what some right-wingers say about Gypsies. "Indian invaders", etc. They have been in Europe longer than whites have been in North or South America. Or even Russians east of the Urals, for that matter. And they are mixed as shit, not even half Indian genetically. A deportation scenario (where? To India where they would be pretty much foreign?) is never gonna transpire, not in a million fucking years. So my only response to that is merciless suppression of their culture without making it a racial or color thing. They are a local phenomenon, not foreign.

[Turul Karom]

You know its very boring that you always quote Dunai while you are talking with me. I have nothing to do with this guy, if you are problem with him and his opinion, quote him, not me. I already said my opinion on avars, its not impossible that they were partly siberian.

I am quoting his talking points because you spoke for him about them when you responded to my questions specifically addressing his claims. You can see this in post 92, where you reply to me.

Its not a silly claim, thats fact in a dictatorship the science and the academy is not free. What do you want with nazis? They were such idiots that they kicked Einstein out from Germany who was the biggest genius of all time, just because he was jewish. That's saying everything about the "free" scientific life in the nazi Germany.

It is a silly claim. The idea that every Turkic country colludes to call Hungarians Uralo-Altaic as a conspiracy or that it is to be dismissed because the countries have varying degrees of political censorship is illogical. The idea that a dictatorship cannot create accurate science in the first place is not true, and there are no Hungarians in their borders, so they have no incentive to say this considering we are in Europe and they are not. They all say it though, and have said it before the Turkic Council was even a thing. Hence, the idea that they must all be dismissed because of the current state of government is silly. The Nazis come in because they did stupid things like expelling smart Jews, but they also invented things on their own that the allies did not have. That is the point about dictatorships. Besides, most of historical kingdoms were autocratic, and people still invented things in those, too.

And im talking about the reality that most hungarians dont even care about turkmens or other central asians, but they want better living standards and economy.

Ok, for the third time, most humans don't feel a particular call to their identity that is greater than their consumer-oriented identity. Everyone likes a good economy. Telling me this is pointless.

I am not geneticist so i dont know that scientifically, but are you geneticist? I just see these tests which shows always a different result. And i dont care anymore this topic.

Lol, are you a historian? Or an archaeologist? Or anything else? This is a layman talk about research and opinion from both of us. Talking about credentials is pointless. The point you made was that you don't trust the ethnic predictions for various reasons, and my point was that so long as even the cheap companies allow you to download your raw data, then it will allow you to see the SNPs like an expensive company would, but less. This is information that even a layman can make use of. If you don't want to talk about it anymore, then fine, but you cannot ignore the usefulness in many circumstances. I have found great use in my genetic data.

I have talked about the proto-magyars, and these haplos are existed among proto ugrics, so we have no reason to consider it turkic.

So since they existed amongst both, would it be daring to say perhaps, maybe, that it would be alright to call the Conquering Hungarians Uralo-Altaic as a people? Hmmm. It's almost like it combines the two most common meta ethnic groups that contribute to the Hungarian ethnogenesis.

No, this is the reality. Doesn't matter how many source we give you, your mind don't change and never will. You dont care about the facts you just want certify your identity as a fanatic, that's all.

A fanatic what? There is no religion here. Everyone has seen my DNA tests, which I have posted with pride. There are some who once said (even Stears used to say) that I was a Turkish or other Turkic migrant into Hungary or that I have a Turkic parent and a Hungarian parent because of my results. However, this is not true, and Hungarian members who take genetic tests also share a Conqueror connection via their Turkic results frequently. It is quite impressive, and it would be interesting to see your results if you ever dared to take a test, too.

Because i dont care székelys, they have nothing to do with this topic. You also ignored tons of things what i said, for example by your logic modern hungarians are latins, because they are roman catholics, they use latin writing, roman laws, latin names etc, i mentioned that why we should prefer turkic origin instead or ugric while these haplos have been found among ugrics, you just wrote a very long text about nothing. This is your tactic, if someone mention an awkward thing what refute you then you start to speak a totally different thing in a very long comment.

I added about the Szeklers at the end of a conversation thread because I like to talk about them, as they are my own subgroup and wanted to see if, since you think that we would be of Turkic origin, that it would somehow make it different from the other Hungarians. You never answered me about this, and that is too bad. You never clarified how in your eyes, Szeklers are not Turkic but yet somehow still of Turkic origin. That makes it sound like we have a different origin than Hungarians, which I do not agree with, and have explained my perspective.

I write my text with information and intent. If you cannot read it all and don't want to talk anymore, then just tell me. Also, anyone who reads this thread will see that I reply to all of your statements, while you ignore my uncomfortable questions or counterpoints that make you look awkward and cut my quotes to clips rather than responding with shorter sentences. You could just do that if you want, but you want to not make it seem like you are ignoring all of the questions or not addressing the counter. That is bad practice.

Who is this we? Living in a dream world wont save you, because the gypsie birth rate is 3x higher than hungarian birth rate, this is the cold reality, and your beloved Orbán don't do anything except stealing the EU money. Also you have no idea about my generation. Once leave the retirement home and go to a house party or a college party with university students (even the conservative youth too) what do they think about Hungary and the world, or what are they doing in these parties, and finally at the end if you survive the tons of cocaine, alcohol and the bisexual orgies then you will have a little idea about the nihilist reality among the young generation.
What do you want with this Transylvania poster? You are far away from the reality and you live in dream world. You are dreaming about Transylvania when the romanians have 4x bigger army and this crippled robbed little country is going to extinction.

Do you think I am alone in this? Do you think I don't spend my time with like-minded Hungarians and other steppe peoples outside of TA? TA isn't even the place where I spend the most time on these topics; I am interested in real-life connections and living the most.

We have talked about this before, and I have said that you have some warped view on ages and awareness. Do you think I haven't heard of a hedonistic party or something? Even politicians partake in these hypocritical acts at times. Orbán (or any other PM) will not come to a home to clean your kitchen, teach your children about family heritage, practice national pride, work out for you in the gym, spoon feed you healthy food, etc. It is the individual that will, and healthy individuals create healthy families which create healthy nations, because the people are the nation. If people do not wish to be healthy and want to be locked into a Matrix-like pleasure system of an endless party, then that is their choice. I wish that their chains will rest lightly on their necks, and will carry on our history in their place.

Since the meaning of the poster is not with you, it represents the warmth of the sun from the end of my previous statement, and the calm, yet proud countryside which is the home of much culture and my Szekler heritage. Of course, there is the Holy Crown, the symbol of our nation, which will always say "King of the Turks" on it.

It is not me who lives in a dream. I see all of the despair and around me in the faces of many people at times of all ages, but I live my life how I will. It is you and those like you who are living in a world of demoralization. I will tell you a little not-very-secret secret:

The things people fear? The things that demoralize you, and depress you, and cause you and those party people you talked about to seek escapism or nihilism? It is a paper tiger. It is nothing. It exists in the mind. If the Roma problem wasn't here, they would find another reason to excuse their demoralization and depression. They would say the economy, or the lost wars, or Trianon, or some other group of people or politics. There will always be an excuse for the demoralized people's actions. While all of these problems are real, they are not all-powerful. They can be dismantled by a people who are internally confident in themselves on a fundamental level. They can be defeated by those who have the will to defeat them, and it all starts in the head and by living a good life. It all starts with you, that is all.

We live in the same world. Your nation is a "crippled, robbed little country that is going to extinction." My nation is a vibrant, rich nation that spans every continent and is blooming into a flower on the Tree of Life. On a long enough timeline, we are inevitable. We believe in Hungary and we believe in ourselves, just like we believe in our future though our everyday actions.

BTW i love these date base errors, fortunatelly if i a write a very long comment, i always save it in a text file before sending

Of course. These database errors are awful. I wish that the website would be upgraded. I save my posts to you, too. This is another thing we can agree on, lol.

[Blondie]

I'm pretty sure you did say something along those lines. That language and identity is much more important and you don't even believe in genetics that much.

I dont belive in the genetic if someone has euro mixed ancestry for example half slovak half hungarian, but i do belive in genetic if someone has half black or half arab. I hope its clear now.

Listen, I'm one of the most conservative members here (I just don't care to talk about that because I don't find this place worthy enough) but I always laugh at what some right-wingers say about Gypsies. "Indian invaders", etc. They have been in Europe longer than whites have been in North or South America. Or even Russians east of the Urals, for that matter. And they are mixed as shit, not even half Indian genetically. A deportation scenario (where? To India where they would be pretty much foreign?) is never gonna transpire, not in a million fucking years. So my only response to that is merciless suppression of their culture without making it a racial or color thing. They are a local phenomenon, not foreign.

Who said that im conservative? Im liberal, not conservative. And be happy that there are no gypsies in Russia only in insignificant number, because it seems you have no idea about them if you think they are european.

[Blondie]

...

I will continue this debate and i will answer but only in hungarian language. I hope you are okay with it, and you will also answer in hungarian. These are such difficult topics that better if we use our native language. Interesting to see that you have very clearly and confident opinion on hungarian things, but in the last 4 years i have never seen you to argue in hungarian language about it, only in english, if the conversation became hungarian you have always disappeared. I hope you will stay now.

[Turul Karom]

I will continue this debate and i will answer but only in hungarian language. I hope you are okay with it, and you will also answer in hungarian. These are such difficult topics that better if we use our native language. Interesting to see that you have very clearly and confident opinion on hungarian things, but in the last 4 years i have never seen you to argue in hungarian language about it, only in english, if the conversation became hungarian you have always disappeared. I hope you will stay now.

I type in English because I want non-Hungarians to be able to read it, specifically Turkish members and those on my friends list. It is the Lingua Franca of the forum for a reason. You will not dictate to me the language of response. We have spoken in Hungarian and the conversation dies after little communication. Otherwise it is pointless for a public thread. You have brought this up before, and we have talked about it in the past. I have written in Hungarian when relevant to other users as fit and have helped decipher or translate Hungarian in public threads. If you are trying to accuse me of something, then be more forward with it.

[Leto]

I dont belive in the genetic if someone has euro mixed ancestry for example half slovak half hungarian, but i do belive in genetic if someone has half black or half arab. I hope its clear now.



Who said that im conservative? Im liberal, not conservative. And be happy that there are no gypsies in Russia only in insignificant number, because it seems you have no idea about them if you think they are european.

You don't know me but that's okay. I'm well aware of what the Roma are. By the way, the Ruska Roma look more or less like their Balkan brothers and they are quite well known in Russia too. Overall, Gypsies are about 35% South Asian, that is a fact. They aren't fully European but neither are they fully Indian. Plus they are not Hindus and wouldn't be able to understand any Indian language.

Target: Roma_Balkans
Distance: 1.2076% / 0.01207580
46.8 Greek_Macedonia
33.4 Chamar
19.8 Greek_Cappadocia

I don't wanna continue about Gypsies, it seems to be a pointless discussion in this case. If you're a liberal, why care about race anyway? Liberals are usually pro-immigration and diversity and hate white people.

[Mortimer]

You don't know me but that's okay. I'm well aware of what the Roma are. By the way, the Ruska Roma look more or less like their Balkan brothers and they are quite well known in Russia too. Overall, Gypsies are about 35% South Asian, that is a fact. They aren't fully European but neither are they fully Indian. Plus they are not Hindus and wouldn't be able to understand any Indian language.

Target: Roma_Balkans
Distance: 1.2076% / 0.01207580
46.8 Greek_Macedonia
33.4 Chamar
19.8 Greek_Cappadocia

I don't wanna continue about Gypsies, it seems to be a pointless discussion in this case. If you're a liberal, why care about race anyway? Liberals are usually pro-immigration and diversity and hate white people.

Some Roma or a few, have fought in the Red Army in World War 2 and have received awards. In Russia they respected Roma culture, there was or still is a Romen theatre, even in the middle ages, the Roma moved to Russia from the west because in Russia they were more tolerated, they were seen as crown servants. Is that true? I know probably Russians also have their dislike of Roma, but everyone does, under the line Russia is quiete tolerant of roma compared to some other places.

[Mortimer]

https://thesanghakommune.org/2018/07...ces-1941-1945/

[Mortimer]

[Leto]

Some Roma or a few, have fought in the Red Army in World War 2 and have received awards. In Russia they respected Roma culture, there was or still is a Romen theatre, even in the middle ages, the Roma moved to Russia from the west because in Russia they were more tolerated, they were seen as crown servants. Is that true? I know probably Russians also have their dislike of Roma, but everyone does, under the line Russia is quiete tolerant of roma compared to some other places.

I don't know when exactly they appeared in Russia but I assume it was later than in Romania/Bulgaria and also it was probably only in Southern parts initially, including modern Ukraine. They often speak with a Southern or Ukrainian-like accent. Plus many moved to Russia more recently from Moldova.
The Soviet Union tried to create some artificial culture for almost all ethnic groups. Authors, poets, musicians, actors, etc. But Romani music was indeed somewhat famous. I was born in '91, not a Soviet person, so I have no personal experience from those times. Overall, the Tziganes are still the same thieves and fortune tellers in Russia as everywhere else. Sad but true.