Do Scandinavians have Mongoloid DNA?

[Cristiano viejo]

A picture is worth a thousand words

[VikLevaPatel]

According to a research article published in PLoS ONE, Swedes – especially southern Swedes – are genetically close to the Germans and British, while their genetic distance to Finns is substantially longer. The overall structure within Sweden appeared clinal, and the substructure in the southern and middle parts was subtle. In contrast, the northern part of Sweden, Norrland, exhibited pronounced genetic differences both within the area and relative to the rest of the country. These distinctive genetic features of Norrland probably result mainly from isolation by distance and genetic drift caused by low population density.

The use of genome-wide single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) data has recently proven useful in the study of human population structure. We have studied the internal genetic structure of the Swedish population using more than 350,000 SNPs from 1525 Swedes from all over the country genotyped on the Illumina HumanHap550 array. We have also compared them to 3212 worldwide reference samples, including Finns, northern Germans, British and Russians, based on the more than 29,000 SNPs that overlap between the Illumina and Affymetrix 250K Sty arrays. The Swedes – especially southern Swedes – were genetically close to the Germans and British, while their genetic distance to Finns was substantially longer. The overall structure within Sweden appeared clinal, and the substructure in the southern and middle parts was subtle. In contrast, the northern part of Sweden, Norrland, exhibited pronounced genetic differences both within the area and relative to the rest of the country. These distinctive genetic features of Norrland probably result mainly from isolation by distance and genetic drift caused by low population density. The internal structure within Sweden (FST = 0.0005 between provinces) was stronger than that in many Central European populations, although smaller than what has been observed for instance in Finland; importantly, it is of the magnitude that may hamper association studies with a moderate number of markers if cases and controls are not properly matched geographically. Overall, our results underline the potential of genome-wide data in analyzing substructure in populations that might otherwise appear relatively homogeneous, such as the Swedes.

[VikLevaPatel]

A picture is worth a thousand words

Well Well Well:

Swedes are genetically close to Germans and Brits. (And how they excel at speaking English!)

But these distinctive genetic features of Norrland result mainly from isolation by distance and genetic drift caused by low population density.

Definitions: phenotype is the constellation of observable traits; genotype is the genetic endowment of the individual.

Phenotype = genotype + development (in a given environment).

Genotype-vs-phenotype.jpeg

DNA Basics Chapter 8: Genotypes and Phenotypes
Genotype versus phenotype - Understanding Evolution: https://evolution.berkeley.edu/genot...sus-phenotype/
Genetic Dominance: Genotype-Phenotype Relationships: https://www.nature.com/scitable/topi...tionships-489/
The Genotype/Phenotype Distinction: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/genotype-phenotype/
Genotype vs Phenotype - Difference and Comparison | Diffen
The differential view of genotype–phenotype relationships: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...015.00179/full
Swedish Population Substructure Revealed by Genome-Wide Single Nucleotide Polymorphism Data
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post7422777
Genotype vs Phenotype - Genetic Education: https://i.ibb.co/Ch3nQdH/Genotype-vs...0984639772.jpg
What are the Causes of Genotype and Phenotype? - Sciencing
Genotype Versus Phenotype - News Medical
What is genotype? What is phenotype? – pgEd
Genotype and phenotype - Science Learning Hub
Genetic difference: genotype and phenotype | ALRC
Genotype-Phenotype Distinction - an overview - Science Direct
Genotype to phenotype: a complex problem - PubMed

Why can you possess traits neither of your parents have? The relationship of genotype to phenotype is rarely as simple as the dominant and recessive patterns described by Mendel.

The characteristics of an organism emerge through complex interactions of its genetic make-up and the effects of the environment. The predominant current-day meaning of genotype is some relevant part of the DNA passed to the organism by its parents. The phenotype is the physical and behavioral traits of the organism, for example, size and shape, metabolic activities, and patterns of movement. The distinction between them is especially important in evolutionary theory, where the survival and mating of organisms depends on their traits, but it is the DNA, held to be unaffected by the development of the traits over the life course, that is transmitted to the next generation.

We sometimes seem to have forgotten that the original question in genetics was not what makes a protein but rather ‘what makes a dog a dog, a man a man.’
(Noble, 2006)

[Leto]

That article about Swedes being part Hunnic is obviously nonsense. First of all, 4% Q (haplogroup) does not translate to 4% Hunnic autosomally, let alone Asian. By that logic, Kyrgyz people should be 50-60% Indo-European or Aryan, which we know cannot be true.
Southern Sweden is essentially identical to Southern Norway and much of Denmark in terms of DNA.

Distance to: Danish
0.85667964 Norwegian_Southcentral
0.86907997 Swedish_Götaland
1.18978990 Norwegian
2.07968748 German_Lower_Saxony_North
2.49040157 Swedish_West-Svealand

I guess they write articles like that in order to promote the ideology of diversity and mixity.

[VikLevaPatel]

That article about Swedes being part Hunnic is obviously nonsense. First of all, 4% Q (haplogroup) does not translate to 4% Hunnic autosomally, let alone Asian. By that logic, Kyrgyz people should be 50-60% Indo-European or Aryan, which we know cannot be true.
Southern Sweden is essentially identical to Southern Norway and much of Denmark in terms of DNA.

Distance to: Danish
0.85667964 Norwegian_Southcentral
0.86907997 Swedish_Götaland
1.18978990 Norwegian
2.07968748 German_Lower_Saxony_North
2.49040157 Swedish_West-Svealand

I guess they write articles like that in order to promote the ideology of diversity and mixity.

So True, Leto. Haplogroup results are ***not*** Autosomal results.

Although they can be confused with one another and although they can match, or correlate highly with, one another. It may even be possible to make generalizations, which must be interpreted with extreme caution.

Paternal/Maternal Haplogroup Geographic Distribution: https://i.ibb.co/rp759TM/sequencing.png, https://archive.is/F1FQP/412e85d2633...148fcbb4dd.png
The Peopling of Europe from the Maternal and Paternal Perspectives: https://archive.is/XxuaT

In India, for example, it is possible, in rather broad terms, to make some generalisations. H is found in greater percentage among the Austro-Asiatic tribal population, L among the Dravidian language (such as Tamil and Telugu) speaking non-tribal population, R1a1 among speakers of the Indo-European languages (such as Hindi, Punjabi and Bengali). But there is no way on this basis to distinguish any individual from another. An individual with R1a1 could as well be a tribal as an Indo-European language speaker. The most frequent haplogroup among the Indian upper castes belongs to R lineages. The high incidence of this haplogroup is restricted only to the IE- and DR-speaking groups. H, L, and R2 are the major Indian Y-chromosomal haplogroups that occur both in castes and in tribal populations and are rarely found outside the subcontinent. There is no distinction, in the presence or absence of these major clades, between tribal and caste groups. Altogether, three clades—H, L, and R2—account for more than one-third of Indian Y chromosomes. They are also found in decreasing frequencies in central Asians to the north and in Middle Eastern populations to the west. It is noteworthy that the West Eurasian- or Indian-specific haplogroups such as H, J and R are also found in the TB-speaking individuals. The presence of South-Asian-specific paternal lineages in Rajbanshis might have been the result of extensive male gene flow from IE- to TB-speaking groups. The presence of the so called west/central Asian lineages like J2, R1 and R2 in most of the endogamous tribal populations, and its higher STR diversity indicates its presence in the sub-continent much before the arrival of the Indo-European pastoralists.

On the Other Hand:

The "sub-Saharan" haplogroup E1b1a* is very recent in India and is found only among the tribal Siddhis of Gujarat and Southern States.

It is believed they were brought over by the Portuguese as slaves a few centuries ago.

They are still predominantly sub-Saharan African in ancestry but have acquired not insignificant genes from local Indo-European, Dravidian, and Austro-Asiatic speakers.

So much so, that they are now about one-third South Asian.

[Russki]

This study detected small amount of Mongoloid admixture in samples from Central-Northern Europe.

Scandinavia has higher than others.



https://www.researchgate.net/figure/...fig1_258639427

[Lemminkäinen]

Odin came from Central Asia.

[VikLevaPatel]

Here's a comparison:

EUROGENES
EUTEST K13

SWEDISH
NORTH-CENTRAL EURO 25.11 to 99.49 (Midrange 62.3)
SOUTH BALTIC 0 to 37.65 (Midrange 18.825)
ATLANTIC 0 to 27.4 (Midrange 13.7)
EAST EURO 0 to 19.63 (Midrange 9.815)
WEST MED 0 to 10.88 (Midrange 5.44)
WEST ASIAN 0 to 5.31 (Midrange 2.565)

https://i.ibb.co/D8XBnKZ/screencaptu...6-11-20-07.png

Swedes are primarily North-Central Euro, followed by South Baltic, Atlantic, and East Euro.
Brits are are primarily Atlantic, followed by North-Central Euro, West Med, and East Euro.

Obviously, the main difference is the SOUTH BALTIC component, and a second important difference is that Swedes are much more EAST EURO (9.815 vs. 5.28) and the Brits are more WEST MED (7.36 vs. 5.44).

BRITISH ENGLISH
ATLANTIC 15.79 to 95.94 (Midrange 55.865)
NORTH-CENTRAL EURO 0 to 70.12 (Midrange 35.06)
WEST MED 0 to 14.72 (Midrange 7.36)
EAST EURO 0 to 10.56 (Midrange 5.28)
SOUTH BALTIC 0 to 9.44 (Midrange 4.72)
WEST ASIAN 0 to 4.46 (Midrange 2.23)

https://i.ibb.co/qMzhN09/screencaptu...plot-admix.png

sample: Swedish:Sweden9: https://i.ibb.co/8s4Zz3J/sweden9.png (NORTH-CENTRAL EURO: 30.6, ATLANTIC: 22.6, WEST AFRICAN: 0.01, SOUTH BALTIC: 17.59, EAST EURO: 14.87, WEST MED: 8.87, WEST ASIAN: 3.56, SOUTH ASIAN: 0, EAST MED: 1.9, EAST AFRICAN: 0, SIBERIAN: 0, MIDDLE EASTERN: 0)

sample and distance:
South_&_Central_Swedish 2.13
Norwegian 3.28
Danish 5.48
North_Swedish 6.68
Dutch 7.27
West_&_Central_German 7.58
English 8.65
Orcadian 9.49
Irish 10.78
Cornish 10.98

sample: British English:HG00128: https://i.ibb.co/WDsMCjj/eng.png (ATLANTIC: 37.55, EAST EURO: 0.85, WEST ASIAN: 0.48, SOUTH BALTIC: 1.31, NORTH-CENTRAL EURO: 52.01, WEST MED: 5.79, EAST MED: 2.02, SOUTH ASIAN: 0, MIDDLE EASTERN: 0, SIBERIAN: 0, EAST AFRICAN: 0)

sample and distance:
English 29.76
Scottish 30.38
Irish 31.05
Orcadian 31.08
Danish 31.09
Cornish 31.55
Dutch 32.57
Norwegian 32.74
South_&_Central_Swedish 33.74
West_&_Central_German 33.78
French 36.41
North_Swedish 37.86
French_Basque 41.19
Portuguese 41.37
Spanish 41.45
Austrian 42.84
Czech 47
South_Finnish 47.39
North_Italian 47.75
Kaikavian_Croatian 48.77

As stated here, these admixture calculators should be used primarily for making intra- and inter-racial/ethnic comparisons.

[VikLevaPatel]

Here's a comparison:

Here's another comparison using the MDLP K33 calculator:

Brahmin UttarPradesh : https://i.ibb.co/2Zqr8xd/bup.png

Indian (48.67-100), Baltic (0-1.28), Caucasian (0.45-7.99), Finnougric (0-2.95), Westeuropean (0-8.78), Centralasian (0-29.16), Dravidian (0-19.96), Easteuropean (0-4.71).

Brahmin UttarPradesh  Midranges: 74.335 Indian, 14.58 Centralasian, 9.98 Dravidian, 4.39 Westeuropean, 4.22 Caucasian, 2.355 Easteuropean, 1.475 Finnougric, 0.64 Baltic.

Chamars on the other hand are:

0-96.53 Indian, 3.11-89.34, Dravidian, 0-15.69 Centralasian, 0-9.01 Sinotibetan.

 Chamar Midranges: 48.265 Indian, 46.225 Dravidian, 7.845 Centralasian, 4.505 Sinotibetan.

https://i.ibb.co/2n7QdPt/chamar.png

So obviously UP Brahmins are primarily Indian, followed by Centralasian, whereas Chamars are primarily Indian and Dravidian. Morever, UP Brahmins carry much more Centralasian (14.58 vs. 7.845), Westeuropean (4.39 vs. 1.13), Easteuropean (2.355 vs. 0.045), and Caucasian (4.22 vs. 1.25) ancestries.

Compare the above, with British Samples (not that we can really):

https://i.ibb.co/3dkbjCW/english.png

British: Westeuropean 71.52-79.95, Easteuropean 2.36-13.36, Scandinavian 0-9.42, Southeuropean 0-8.95, Westasian 0-5.85, Centralasian 0-5.36, Finnougric 0-4.37, Centraleuropean 0-2.68, Baltic 0-2.6.

https://i.ibb.co/3dkbjCW/english.png

Swedish : Westeuropean 63.1-86.61, Easteuropean 4.06-22.45, Finnougric 0-9.4-11.84, Scandinavian 0-4.87, Centraleuropean 0-2.75, Centralasian 0-1.84.

https://i.ibb.co/9Tp716h/swedes.png

Brits and Swedes are primarily Westeuropean, with the major difference being that Swedes carry much more Finnougric and Easteuropean ancestries.

[VikLevaPatel]

As stated here, these admixture calculators should be used primarily for making intra- and inter-racial/ethnic comparisons.

I stand corrected on this point. Genoplot is an excellent tool for making personal comparisons. That is, comparing your selected admixture results (such as your steppe admixture) with the findings from other genetic tests. In my particular case, Genoplot has been most useful for comparing results for the Euro Hunter-Gatherer, Western Hunter-Gatherer (WHG), Early European Farmer (EEF), Steppe Pastoralist (Yamnaya), and Sintashta populations with results particularly from FTDNA, Genomelink, GenePlaza, and Illustrative DNA (G25).

SO LONG AS you are comparing apples and apples and not apples against oranges.

GEDmatch on the other hand . . .

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...59#post7494159

I Nuked My Gedmatch Account From Orbit

Numbskulls would have you believe that I (and for that matter, my caste and my lineage) only carry a measly 1-3 percent Steppe ancestry, when, in actual fact, the opposite is true.

Steppe 1.16 https://i.ibb.co/WnXsKgV/steppe.png joker000:

Steppe 1.82 Pct https://i.ibb.co/Gc7RGqw/steppekit.png

Steppe 2.66 Pct https://i.ibb.co/C8RMc6s/gedmatch.png