Post your MDLP K11 Modern (new calc)

[Daos777]

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 WHG 36.08
2 Neolithic 27.83
3 EHG 26.80
4 Basal 4.92
5 Iran-Mesolithic 1.58
6 African 1.47


Finished reading population data. 161 populations found.
11 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Nordic_MN_B @ 6.570053
2 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN @ 6.951020
3 Alberstedt_LN @ 7.075094
4 Nordic_LN @ 7.301943
5 Bell_Beaker_Czech @ 7.932228
6 Nordic_BattleAxe @ 8.132501
7 Bell_Beaker_Germany @ 8.181419
8 British_Celtic @ 8.195097
9 Halberstadt_LBA @ 8.227069
10 Unetice_EBA @ 8.573545
11 Corded_Ware_Proto_Unetice_Poland @ 9.106727
12 Irish_BA @ 9.270698
13 British_AngloSaxon @ 9.373348
14 Nordic_IA @ 10.094193
15 British_IronAge @ 10.130991
16 Bell_Beaker @ 10.744489
17 Nordic_LBA @ 11.062138
18 Unetice_MBA @ 11.300024
19 Nordic_BA @ 11.454557
20 Corded_Ware_Estonia @ 11.758889

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Karsdorf_LN +50% Vatya_MBA @ 4.578417


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish_BA +25% Irish_BA +25% Swedish_LN @ 2.473189


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Armenia_Chalcolithic + Bell_Beaker + Bell_Beaker + LesCloseaux13_Mesolithic @ 1.857972
2 Bell_Beaker + Corded_Ware_Chalcolithic + Iberian_Chalcolitic + Karsdorf_LN @ 1.863622
3 Bell_Beaker + Corded_Ware_Chalcolithic + Europe_MN + Karsdorf_LN @ 1.946817
4 Bell_Beaker + Corded_Ware_Chalcolithic + Karsdorf_LN + Scandinavian_MN @ 1.955319
5 Bell_Beaker + Corded_Ware_Chalcolithic + Scandinavian_MN + Yamnaya_Samara_EBA @ 2.03

[Scandal]

African -
Amerindian -
ASI -
Basal 5.07 Pct
Iran-Mesolithic -
Neolithic 32.98 Pct
Oceanic 0.56 Pct
EHG 25.11 Pct
SEA -
Siberian 0.10 Pct
WHG 36.19 Pct

I am not posting closest population because I think they're inaccurate asf.

[Chris596]

1 Neolithic 34.46
2 WHG 28.67
3 EHG 25.29
4 Basal 6.09
5 Iran-Mesolithic 2.22
6 SEA 2.03
7 Siberian 0.85
8 African 0.39

The populations approximation is really garbage, I get British Celtic as first result

[VikLevaPatel]

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 ASI 63.79
2 EHG 26.19
3 SEA 5.28
4 Iran-Mesolithic 2.54
5 Basal 1.77

MDLP K14 (available at Genoplot) will most likely show a much lower percentage of ASI ancestry (even below 30).

MDLP K14: ANI, ASI, East-Asian, Subsaharian, Papuan, Mesolithic, Amerindian, Altaic

ANI 60.44, ASI 29.55: https://i.ibb.co/8gPkHVk/ani.png, https://i.ibb.co/QPTn1h3/asiani.png

MDLP K11 (ASI 62.74 Pct, EHG 29.47 Pct): https://i.ibb.co/27F6DK7/ehg.png

[VikLevaPatel]

it is pretty good
but in my case it was realy far apart from k12 ancient of kurd at geneplazza
but with all respect to vadim i think kurd is the correct one

It has been pointed out that such (calculator versus calculator) comparisons can be dangerous and misleading. What is needed, therefore, is a real comparison of data of selected populations across the board in order to arrive at a certain degree of accuracy.

So basically, what we see here are different calculators giving vastly different results, and that is precisely why they, the individual calculators, each considered singly by it self, are inconclusive and cannot have the final say. MDLP K11 is not available on Genoplot, but, in all fairness, none of them can be expected to give satisfactory results on their own. Perfect results or the best results are obtainable only when population categories are selected, and then followed by an across-the-board comparison of the selected category. (Comparing Apples with....Apples.) In other words, going through all of the Genoplot admixture calculators so as to arrive at an accurate conclusion (truth).

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post7496479

I stand corrected on this point. Genoplot is an excellent tool for making personal comparisons. That is, comparing your selected admixture results (such as your steppe admixture) with the findings from other genetic tests. In my particular case, Genoplot has been most useful for comparing results for the Euro Hunter-Gatherer, Western Hunter-Gatherer (WHG), Early European Farmer (EEF), Steppe Pastoralist (Yamnaya), and Sintashta populations with results particularly from FTDNA, Genomelink, GenePlaza, and Illustrative DNA (G25).

SO LONG AS you are comparing apples and apples and not apples against oranges.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post7495571

The importance of an accurate result, one in which bias is removed as far as possible, cannot be over-emphasized. Two laboratories performing an analysis, for instance, may give significantly different results, indicating that one or the other, or both, may be biased.

What needs to be avoided is MDLP K11.

Just a quick comparison of the three MDLP calculators is enough to tell me that it's not all "hunky dory" in genetics land and that the calculators differ enough to warrant cross comparisons.

MDLP K11: ASI 62.74
MDLP K14: ANI 60.44, ASI 29.55
MDLP K16: ANI 68.37-99.56

How can you possibly say "Modern" when MDLP K11 actually gives your matches to several ancient population groups.

MDLP K16 Modern, this guide points out, is possibly the best MDLP calculator, and references worldwide modern populations with a 4 population breakdown.

MDLP K14 (available at Genoplot) will most likely show a much lower percentage of ASI ancestry (even below 30).

MDLP K14: ANI, ASI, East-Asian, Subsaharian, Papuan, Mesolithic, Amerindian, Altaic

ANI 60.44, ASI 29.55: https://i.ibb.co/8gPkHVk/ani.png, https://i.ibb.co/QPTn1h3/asiani.png

MDLP K11 (ASI 62.74 Pct, EHG 29.47 Pct): https://i.ibb.co/27F6DK7/ehg.png

MDLP K16 Modern (Genoplot):

https://i.ibb.co/SQCHXS5/MDLP.png, https://i.ibb.co/Zxbbrkj/MDLP2.png

ANI: 68.37-99.56
Caucasian: 0.01-11.61
SEA: 0.01-11.27

[Rafael Passoni]

Me:
Population
African -
Amerindian -
ASI -
Basal 13.48 Pct
Iran-Mesolithic 1.93 Pct
Neolithic 43.11 Pct
Oceanic -
EHG 22.47 Pct
SEA -
Siberian -
WHG 19.02 Pct
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Neolithic 43.11
2 EHG 22.47
3 WHG 19.02
4 Basal 13.48
5 Iran-Mesolithic 1.93

Spoiler!

Finished reading population data. 161 populations found.
11 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Maros_BA @ 17.400572
2 Vatya_MBA @ 18.284405
3 Germany_BA @ 18.353096
4 Germany_Bronze_Age @ 18.353096
5 Hungary_MBA @ 20.052868
6 Anatolia_Chalcolithic @ 23.019993
7 British_Celtic @ 25.073795
8 Hungary_IronAge @ 25.123968
9 Hungary_BA @ 25.556376
10 Armenia_Chalcolithic @ 25.585480
11 Alberstedt_LN @ 26.026608
12 Bell_Beaker_Germany @ 26.309149
13 British_IronAge @ 27.356043
14 Halberstadt_LBA @ 27.899826
15 Swedish_LN @ 27.919815
16 Bell_Beaker @ 28.355440
17 Nordic_MN_B @ 29.491148
18 Bell_Beaker_Czech @ 29.554697
19 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN @ 30.110008
20 Nordic_BA @ 30.453207

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenia_Chalcolithic +50% Vatya_MBA @ 7.775220


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Bell_Beaker +25% British_Roman +25% Spain_EN @ 2.522300


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Bell_Beaker + Karsdorf_LN + LBK_EN + Levant_N @ 1.867995
2 Anatolia_Neolithic + Bell_Beaker + Karsdorf_LN + Levant_N @ 2.191987
3 Bell_Beaker + Karsdorf_LN + Levant_N + Starcevo_EN @ 2.231402
4 Bell_Beaker + Levant_N + Starcevo_EN + Yamnaya_Samara_EBA @ 2.283761
5 Bell_Beaker + BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN + British_Roman + Starcevo_EN @ 2.365615
6 Bell_Beaker + Bell_Beaker_Germany + British_Roman + LBK_EN @ 2.432834
7 Alberstedt_LN + Bell_Beaker + British_Roman + LBK_EN @ 2.497807
8 Bell_Beaker + BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN + British_Roman + Spain_EN @ 2.503858
9 Bell_Beaker + Bell_Beaker + British_Roman + Spain_EN @ 2.522300
10 Bell_Beaker + BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN + British_Roman + LBK_EN @ 2.542338
11 Bell_Beaker + Levant_N + Poltavka_MBA + Starcevo_EN @ 2.631912
12 Greek_Neolithic + Bell_Beaker + Karsdorf_LN + Levant_N @ 2.644820
13 Bell_Beaker + British_Roman + Halberstadt_LBA + LBK_EN @ 2.645602
14 Bell_Beaker + LBK_EN + Levant_N + Yamnaya_Samara_EBA @ 2.650795
15 Bell_Beaker + British_Roman + Nordic_LN + Starcevo_EN @ 2.662872
16 Nordic_BattleAxe + Bell_Beaker + British_Roman + Spain_EN @ 2.756088
17 Bell_Beaker + British_Roman + LBK_EN + Nordic_LN @ 2.777783
18 Alberstedt_LN + Bell_Beaker + British_Roman + Spain_EN @ 2.790925
19 Bell_Beaker + Levant_N + Starcevo_EN + Yamnaya_Kalmykia_LBA @ 2.807636
20 Anatolia_Neolithic + Bell_Beaker + Bell_Beaker_Germany + British_Roman @ 2.825811

[VikLevaPatel]

ANI: 68.37-99.56
Caucasian: 0.01-11.61
SEA: 0.01-11.27

The "Caucasian" category is related to Caucasus Hunter-Gatherer (CHG) and not at all to the racial classification.

In any event, my results for the "Caucasian" category are very dissimilar and go all the way up to 40-plus percent.

The deeper I dig into these results, the more I realize that no one person or corporation has access to the Truth and the more I am proven right about cross comparisons.

Most of these categories can be considered "junk" in much the same way as our cells are filled with 'Junk DNA', or that much of our genome has no apparent purpose.

The "ASI" category, for one thing, is most definitely a boatload of junk.

MDLP K11: ASI 62.74
MDLP K14: ANI 60.44, ASI 29.55
MDLP K16: ANI 68.37-99.56

It has been pointed out that such (calculator versus calculator) comparisons can be dangerous and misleading. What is needed, therefore, is a real comparison of data of selected populations across the board in order to arrive at a certain degree of accuracy. The importance of an accurate result, one in which bias is removed as far as possible, cannot be over-emphasized. Two laboratories performing an analysis, for instance, may give significantly different results, indicating that one or the other, or both, may be biased.

I mean, this is really serious stuff, and cannot be taken lightly.

Failing which it may lead to a "Who am I?" identity crisis and conflict and may result in a breakdown of personal identity. The associated stress may invoke a suicidal crisis.

Come down, Veeru; your "Ancestral South Indian" score is much lower on MDLP K14

https://i.imgflip.com/6fev4r.jpg

6fev4r.jpg

[VikLevaPatel]

GEDmatch is the Police's Go-To Genealogy Database and is owned by a company that serves law enforcement.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post7500972

It's not even a poor man's version of FTDNA or Sequencing.com.

Probably A Depraved Indian Streetsh*tter's Version. Utter garbage.

Use Genoplot to add finishing touches to your genealogy data.

PuntDNAL and other admixture calculators most likely use the terms "CHG" and "Caucasian" interchangeably and the one available PuntDNAL calculator on Genoplot replaces CHG with "Iran N".

CHG 30.9 https://i.ibb.co/GMJjfrS/chg31.png
Caucasus_HG 30.66 https://ibb.co/L90Wykr
Caucasian 25.34 https://i.ibb.co/Y797zdv/caucasian.png
EHG 29.47 (MDLP-K11-Modern) https://i.ibb.co/P965d2x/ehg.png

At the same time, I am starting to doubt whether or not this "Caucasian" label is "substantially the same" as CHG. There's quite a few examples of this confusing "Caucasian" population category on Genoplot.

The Kurdish Iran Neolithic calculator gives much more accurate results of approximately 60% Iran_N: https://i.ibb.co/Lgj0hqw/kurdish.png

Compare with Puntdnal K12 (Iran N 29.46): https://i.ibb.co/c2YxxQG/punt.png

The PuntDNAL "ENF" and "European_HG" results are completely off mark and I have no way of comparing the GEDmatch MDLP K11 "EHG" result. Illustrative DNA gives a reasonably good figure or percent (11.4%) for European Hunter-Gatherer although the Anatolian Neolithic Farmer result (1.2%) is completely inaccurate and should be closer to if not the same as the Early European Farmer (EEF) or First European Farmer (FEF) result (8-10 percent). The results confirm that the earliest Neolithic central Anatolians belonged to the same gene pool as the first Neolithic migrants spreading into Europe.

Hungar EN 15.83
Sintashta 15.14
Anatolia N 12.47
Spain EN 12.37
Levant N 9.09

https://i.ibb.co/5FY1Hpv/mephisto.png

Anatolia N and Levant N could be viewed as interchangeable terms.

Illustrative DNA describes Anatolian Neolithic Farmers thus: "Recent genetic studies have shown that in Europe, farming was introduced by an expansion of early farmers from Anatolia who were closely related to those from Barcın. These farmers replaced Western hunter-gatherers (WHG) to a large extent, ultimately becoming the main genetic contribution to current European populations, especially those of the Mediterranean." According to Wikipedia, "Ancestors of EEFs are believed to have split off from Western Hunter-Gatherers (WHGs) around 43,000 BC, and to have split from Caucasian Hunter-Gatherers (CHGs) around 23,000 BC. They appear to have migrated from Anatolia to Europe in large numbers during the Early Neolithic."

The first farmers from Anatolia brought farming to Europe and represent the single largest ancestral component in modern-day Europeans.

The Y chromosome haplogroup R1 is thought to have originated shortly after the Late Glacial Maximum (LGM), but its frequency is found to increase greatly in Central Europe during the Late Neolithic and Bronze Age, leading to the hypothesis that these haplotypes expanded from the East only after ∼4.5 kya. Its presence in Romanian Mesolithic individuals and in older European human remains suggests that this haplotype was already found at high frequencies in certain regions of Europe well before then.

FTDNA does not use the terms "CHG" and "EHG" and their "Hunter Gatherer" category means "WHG" or Western Hunter Gatherer and not EHG. The two terms, "Bronze Age Invader" (used by FTDNA) and "Indo-European" (used by iGENEA), are interchangeable.

The high 60% Iran_N result is in line with the high 64-67% IVC result from Illustrative DNA (G25).

https://i.ibb.co/tz9qDYR/illustrative1.png, https://i.ibb.co/pWvp5tp/illustrative2.png

According to Illustrative DNA, "Recent studies incorporating genomic data from both ancient DNA and present-day South Asians have modeled the formation of the Indian Cline as a combination of three source populations: the Ancient Ancestral South Indians (AASI), a population related to Neolithic farmers in Iran and Middle–Late Bronze Age Steppe populations (Steppe_MLBA)."

[VikLevaPatel]

Hungar EN 15.83
Sintashta 15.14
Anatolia N 12.47
Spain EN 12.37
Levant N 9.09

https://i.ibb.co/5FY1Hpv/mephisto.png

Am I seeing what I am seeing?

The MEPHISTO K10 ADMIX calculator is dead, but not dead-dead. Get it?

It's still breathing on the Genoplot website.

From what I know, it's very disappointing and I'm going to keep saying so.

Having already suspected this inconvenient truth, I decided to add these disparate populations to this admix.

I didn't like what I saw, for sure. Click and see for yourself.

https://i.ibb.co/6y6z7t1/mep.png, https://i.ibb.co/vZpMyRn/meph.png

You can't beat a dead horse, and this is one.

Jesus Christ, I thought. Can't make this up. I was like: 'Fuuuck this.'

I think most of my reaction went something like complete silence followed by a "What the fuuuck?!" face.

And now I have to edit my signature and eliminate those entries!



I'll have more on this in the days ahead and I'll post them here.

And for the time being, that's it.

Users of Genoplot are advised to proceed with utmost caution.

See this post: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...35#post7534135

[VikLevaPatel]

The PuntDNAL "ENF" and "European_HG" results are completely off mark and I have no way of comparing the GEDmatch MDLP K11 "EHG" result. Illustrative DNA gives a reasonably good figure or percent (11.4%) for European Hunter-Gatherer although the Anatolian Neolithic Farmer result (1.2%) is completely inaccurate and should be closer to if not the same as the Early European Farmer (EEF) or First European Farmer (FEF) result (8-10 percent). The results confirm that the earliest Neolithic central Anatolians belonged to the same gene pool as the first Neolithic migrants spreading into Europe.

EEF was or may have been "90% Anatolian", as noted here and elsewhere, and it may make sense to claim (as has been done on the Eupedia site) that "all modern Europeans are at least 30 percent-plus Neolithic Anatolian", with some Europeans even scoring at over the fifty percent mark. It may make logical sense, and it may even make biological sense, but that doesn't automatically make it right. Saying so doesn't make it so. And something said often enough does not make it so.

Maybe it's time to STOP making certain claims. And Āryadeva had written that a person who makes no claims, either that anything exists or that something does not exist, cannot be refuted.

As a rule, simply saying or claiming something does NOT make it true! And believing something doesn't make it so, either. Similarly, one man's declaring he's the messiah doesn't make it so as well. :crucify:

It is not disputable that the first farmers from Anatolia brought farming to Europe and represent the single largest ancestral component in modern-day Europeans. But that does not mean that the scores or results are translatable from one to the other. The following simple example illustrates this point.

Family Tree DNA gave me a score of 10% for the "Early European Farmer" (EEF) category, whereas Genomelink gave me a score of 8%. And the Genoplot admixes give a score range of 7 to 9. Combined they give a total score ranging from 7 to 10, with a higher score indicating more accurate predictions.

But seriously, the results or scores for the Farmer & HG category on the ILLUSTRATIVE DNA site are way off base.

For one thing, the score for the Anatolian Neolithic Farmer component was a measly 1.2%. See here.

After all, those scores are "so low as to be practically negligible."

Shouldn't it be higher? Of course it should be. This is way, way, way off reality. What else can one say other than that different studies present very different results.

Another thing to remember is that they are a simulation, and they are a reality that didn't happen but could have. But that's not reality, right? Reality is not so simple, and in reality, matters are not so simple. (And, mark you, aren't I glad for the caste system.)

Reality versus simulation, reality versus fantasy, film versus music, male versus female, it could go on forever.

That's why the scores get so low or so high.

Generally they are limited, as they are simulation-based.



The K35 calculator on the GenePlaza website shows that the geographical range of European Neolithic Farmers covers a vast area extending across Europe and Asia Minor and including both diverse environments and widely varying climatic conditions, and the region from central Anatolia, in present-day Turkey, in the East to Germany and the UK in the West.

See map for details and list of ancient bronze and iron age cultures.

Map from Dilawer Khan's K35 calculator (Available at geneplaza.com): https://i.ibb.co/cbjSbRS/map.jpg

Basically my score should have been higher and the Anatolian score should be around the 5% mark. In other words, around half of the EEF score, or to put the point another way, the EEF score is double that of the Anatolian score.

See my Bronze Age DNA Test results here: https://i.ibb.co/PDGNSK4/yam.png, https://i.ibb.co/w70zfQm/yamn.png

And here's a very informative and detailed review of the GenePlaza site, by Lucas Bird: https://resources.selfdecode.com/blog/geneplaza-review/

And here is his Bronze Age DNA test result: https://resources.selfdecode.com/app...9-2048x945.png

Notice the low score (1.4%) for the 'Anatolia' component.

But I'll tell you who does have a high Anatolian count or score. And they are the Iranian Scythians. Here's a side-by-side comparison:

https://i.ibb.co/VJ6VQt5/scyth.png

For this one they scored a high 30.

See Also: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...29#post7518729

The genetic distance data should, in addition, be "translatable" into results or into percentage scores. In other words, the ancestry results can be compared against the genetic distances (proxies of time since divergence), and vice versa. The two should either match each other or complement each other. However, this might not necessarily always be the case.

So, like in this example, this Map My Genes Archaeology Edition, by Vladimir Naumov & Vadim Lagutin, compares DNA samples to more than 3,500 ancient DNA samples from archaeological excavations throughout the world. Some samples are 40,000 years old. In particular, and in my case, this component certainly shows up again and again.

Group Label, distance
Anatolia_IA.SG (1300-600 BCE), 1.822983
Anatolia_MLBA.SG (2500-1200 BCE), 2.236528
Anatolia_EBA.SG (3000-2500 BCE), 2.521638
Anatolia_N_Tepecik_Ciftlik.SG (6635-6475 cal BCE), 3.003962
Anatolia_N_Boncuklu.SG (8279-7977 cal BCE), 3.631295
Anatolia_N.SG (6419-6238 cal BCE), 3.900376
Anatolia_N (6220-6064 cal BCE), 5.073900
Anatolia_Ottoman1.SG (1200-1950 CE), 5.103144

https://i.ibb.co/Smbhrnt/mmg.png

And here are the distances to the various Scythian groups:

Moldova_Scythian.SG (390-205 cal BCE), 2.532332
Moldova_Scythian.SG (397-209 cal BCE), 3.357129
Hungary_Scythian.SG (735-392 cal BCE), 3.826302
Hungary_Prescythian_IA.SG (980-830 cal BCE), 4.343326
Hungary_Scythian.SG (774-431 cal BCE), 4.820540
Ukraine_Scythian.SG (795-542 cal BCE), 5.398666
Hungary_Scythian.SG (749-398 cal BCE), 5.483444
Ukraine_Scythian.SG (768-431 cal BCE), 6.163891
Moldova_Scythian_o2.SG (380-203 cal BCE), 6.189295

https://i.ibb.co/v3vkB84/scythian.png