"Proto-Iranians were not Northern Europeans"

[Melonman]

theyre from russia, but they are more ancestrial to aryans of central asia than to europeans. only few certain russians got this aryan ancestry.

the aryans almost died in europe

[Leto]

LMAO. Proto-Iranic and proto-Indo-Iranic are 2 different things.

South Asia is not 'Iranic', but mostly Hindu/Vedic.

Geneflow from the Steppes into South Asia occurred around 1500BC. It was long after proto-Indo-Iranics were gone.

What the fuck's your problem with Steppe ancestry? Just admit that your people are a mix of multiple different things, as most nations today, especially bigger ones. Your ancestry is mostly not from the Steppe, you are right about that. But the proto-Iranic language did come down from the Steppe. There's nothing controversial about that. Even if the new Southern Ark hypothesis is correct (which is far from certain), Iran and Kurdistan got Indo-Europeanized much later than that.

[Guti]

But the proto-Iranic language did come down from the Steppe.

Proto-Indo-Iranian, proto-Indo-Aryan (Vedic Sanskrit) and proto-Iranic (related to Avestan) are 3 different things. Just think about that.

[Guti]

Even proto-Western Iranic has a different origin than the proto-Iranic.

Like proto-Slavic has a different origin than proto-Balto-Slavic. Or proto-Eastern Slavic has different origin than proto-Western Slavic.






This is how Kurdic is related to other Northwestern Iranic langauges.



glottolog.org/resource/languoid/id/kurd1259

[Leto]

The Andronovo people had disappeared before those ancient books were written.

[Guti]

The Andronovo people had disappeared before those ancient books were written.

Ok. But I am 100% sure they (Andronovo) didn't speak proto-Iranic, let alone proto-Western Iranic. At max proto-Indo-Iranian or even proto-Indo-Aryan or something.


What I am trying to say is that even if proto-Iranic ancestors of the Kurds were somehow related to the Andronovo Horizon, they came NOT from Andronovo Horizon when they migrated into Kurdistan. When they arrived in Kurdistan they were not the same people you could find in the Steppes at that time.

[Leto]

Guti, please try this model for me

MNG_Ulaanzuukh_Slab_Grave,0.0247883,-0.4316,0.0744604,-0.0324077,-0.0641144,-0.0424223,0.0110716,0.0203838,0.0101353,0.0177378,-0.0425639,-0.0023647,-0.000165,0.0003823,4.51e-05,-0.0017383,0.0008403,-0.0046594,-0.0001953,0.0198567,-0.0247064,-0.0017723,-0.0200073,-0.0059041,0.0012639
RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA,0.037562,-0.424491,0.154997,0.001938,-0.14495,-0.085341,0.019506,0.031845,0.028633,0.005832,0.086878,-0.00015,0.011298,-0.04803,-0.045466,-0.027711,0.000261,0.006714,0.004148,-0.009379,0.026204,0.001607,0.002218,0.004338,0.008502
CHN_Yellow_River_LN,0.0166466,-0.4503874,0.0109365,-0.0657709,0.0545101,0.0217886,0.0037894,0.0012404,-0.0097149,0.0040092,-0.0851524,-0.0100032,0.0123945,-0.0059179,-0.0088896,-0.000895,0.001483,-0.0003801,-0.0048392,-0.0075191,0.0172975,0.007543,0.0128639,-0.0006476,0.0073496
KAZ_Aktogai_MLBA,0.1238396,0.1092712,0.057247,0.0803624,0.006832,0.0277774,0.0055462,0.0020308,-0.0176302,-0.028356,-0.0004872,-0.0001198,0.0004164,-0.0231206,0.0219864,0.0119594,-0.007171,-0.001723,-0.0012318,0.0021012,-0.0054654,0.00413,-0.0005918,0.0059282,-0.0022992
Levant_Megiddo_MLBA,0.0861261,0.1455592,-0.0646134,-0.1002072,-0.014596,-0.0394563,-0.0045434,-0.0097249,0.0131382,0.0089382,0.0103465,-0.0088707,0.0219027,0.0020119,-0.007316,0.005411,-0.0024898,0.004217,0.0036812,0.0073607,0.0047534,0.0040982,-0.0049357,-0.0025361,-0.0014427
TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA,0.1050018,0.1515678,-0.042332,-0.082365,-0.0040775,-0.0274705,-0.0024088,-0.0077882,-0.011402,0.028429,0.0097435,0.007006,-0.0120788,0.0030965,-0.0138435,-0.004475,0.0116693,-0.0021538,0.0087988,-0.00741,-0.0031817,0.0061828,-0.0048065,0.0030725,-0.001407
IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C,0.0780205,0.0973985,-0.1210557,-0.0128319,-0.0964655,0.0129052,0.0135666,-0.0041957,-0.0710069,-0.0366129,-0.0049454,-0.0008311,-0.0011082,-0.0034781,0.0189268,0.0286995,-0.0069221,0.0043305,0.0072791,-0.0235001,0.0067043,-0.0146134,-0.0055349,-0.0227852,0.01339
IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2,0.043708,-0.0327002,-0.170006,0.0950268,-0.1047582,0.0568936,0.0063452,0.0041998,0.0056858,0.0067428,-0.0051964,0.0079128,-0.0018436,-0.0031928,0.0098534,0.0097852,-0.0023732,0.0025084,0.0016342,-0.0142568,0.0029694,-0.0125136,-0.0011832,-0.0119052,0.001317
KEN_Nyarindi_3500BP,-0.528139,0.049761,-0.012445,0.010013,-0.016926,0.008367,0.098469,-0.08192,0.06422,-0.052848,-0.013316,0.018733,-0.029583,-0.011973,0.017372,-0.007425,0.027902,0.03978,-0.008925,-0.004127,-0.005865,0.017806,-0.007518,0.003494,0.00467

[Babak]

Ok. But I am 100% sure they (Andronovo) didn't speak proto-Iranic, let alone proto-Western Iranic. At max proto-Indo-Iranian or even proto-Indo-Aryan or something.


What I am trying to say is that even if proto-Iranic ancestors of the Kurds were somehow related to the Andronovo Horizon, they came NOT from Andronovo Horizon when they migrated into Kurdistan. When they arrived in Kurdistan they were not the same people you could find in the Steppes at that time.

They already assimilated in modern day Iran.

[Guti]

Target: Guti_g25_scaled
Distance: 1.4276% / 0.01427578
38.2 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
25.8 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
19.2 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
14.8 KAZ_Aktogai_MLBA
1.6 CHN_Yellow_River_LN
0.4 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA

[Guti]

They already assimilated in modern day Iran.

Who?

IF it is true what the majority of the academic world is claiming, and that Kurdish Iranic ancestors came from Central Asia, then they (the Medes) arrived from BMAC/Yaz and not from Andronovo. So, if we are going to link the Medes to Yaz (BMAC) that would mean that Kurds would have by far more Iranic ancestry then what people here are claiming.