"Proto-Iranians were not Northern Europeans"

[Guti]

Diakonoff, I.M. (1985) wrote something about how the Medes dominated the trade routes between Kurdistan and Khorasan


As the region inhabited by Parthians, Parthia first appears as a political entity in Achaemenid lists of governorates ("satrapies") under their dominion. Prior to this, the people of the region seem to have been subjects of the Medes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthia
https://www-cambridge-org.vu-nl.idm....9E9142D0A245EF


Also this:

Some of Diakonoff's articles deal with the history of eastern and central parts of Asia Minor during the 8th-6th centuries BCE, and his other works are devoted to the ancient cultures of Central Asia. In his article "Vostochnyĭ Iran do Kira" (Eastern Iran before Cyrus; see Diakonoff, 1971a), Diakonoff considered the problems of the origin and allocation of Iranian-speaking tribes in Central Asia, Afghanistan, and Eastern Iran, as well as their history in pre-Achaemenid times, based on the Avestan tradition and in the context of archeological data. According to his opinion, pre-Avestan and Avestan cultures of pre-Achaemend times should be located in Parthia, Margiana, Bactria, and Arachosia and dated to the first half of the 1st millennium BCE.

In collaboration with his brother, Mikhail Diakonoff, and Vladimir Livshits, he participated in the decipherment and study of over two thousand ostraca which were discovered during archaeological excavations at Nisa in Turkmenistan in 1948-61. As these scholars have demonstrated, the above-mentioned ostraca contain economic documents written in Parthian but in Aramaic heterographic script. Later these texts were published by Diakonoff together with V. A. Livshits (Diakonoff, 1960) and then they were edited by D. N. MacKenzie (1926-2001) in Corpus Inscriptionum Iranicarum (Diakonoff, 1976-2002).

https://iranicaonline.org/articles/d...ional-standing

The Medes predate the Parthians because the Median Empire predates the Parthian Empire. In turn Parthians themselves were for a huge part the Medes themselves, because the spoke the language of the Medes.


Parthia is a historical region located in north-eastern Iran. It was conquered and subjugated by the empire of the Medes during the 7th century BC, was incorporated into the subsequent Achaemenid Empire under Cyrus the Great in the 6th century BC, and formed part of the Hellenistic Seleucid Empire following the 4th-century-BC conquests of Alexander the Great. The region later served as the political and cultural base of the Eastern-Iranian Parni people and Arsacid dynasty, rulers of the Parthian Empire (247 BC – 224 AD). The Sasanian Empire, the last state of pre-Islamic Iran, also held the region and maintained the Seven Parthian clans as part of their feudal aristocracy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthia

[Halgurd]

Which further proves assimilation. Whether we have direct ancestors or not, its all assimilation.

The point im trying to make is Iranics of today are Iranicized, unlike Turks, who have legit direct Turkic ancestry.

Iranics are no more “Iranicized” than Turks are Turkicized. About 20% of the autosomal profile of western Iranic (Kurds, Lurs, Persians etc) is steppe derived and the remainder is mostly BMAC derived.

Just check the Iron Age Hasanlu samples - they are identical to modern Kurds.

[Halgurd]

Not really. If they were just Iranicized then they would genetically be 100 % Iran-Chl which some Kurds barely have 40% according to qpadm. G25 is absurd because i heard it shows some kurds as 97% 2700 year old Hasanlu. This is absurd because no one in north W. Asia is 97% 300 year old grandparent let alone 2700 year old random person. This is one of the many proofs why G25 is a joke. Only people that are 97% someone from 2700 years ago are inbred isolated islanders.

It just proves that that the ethnogenesis of Kurds was complete in the Iron Age. Why is it ridiculous that Kurds are genetically identical to the Iron Age samples?

[Zoro]

Nope, actually the Medes predate Parthians and were the original Aryans.

There was an Aryan migration (Medes/Amadai) from Kurdistan into Khorasan area around 1000 BCE.

I was referring to the late iron age inhabitants and Arya and Aryana being Parthians and Sogdians. I Don’t have enough info on Medes

Windfuhr identified Kurdish dialects as Parthian, albeit with a Median substratum. Windfuhr and Frye assume an eastern origin for Kurdish and consider it as related to eastern and central Iranian dialects.[23][24]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_languages

[IMG][/IMG]

[Halgurd]

I was referring to the late iron age inhabitants and Arya and Aryana being Parthians and Sogdians. I Don’t have enough info on Medes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_languages

[IMG][/IMG]

Okay, so how can Kurdish descend from Parthian if Kurds have been mentioned in the history books prior to the Parthian and even alongside the Parthians e.g Corduene. Classical Kurds and Parthians were two separate peoples.

[Zoro]

It just proves that that the ethnogenesis of Kurds was complete in the Iron Age. Why is it ridiculous that Kurds are genetically identical to the Iron Age samples?

Not just kurds anyone from that crossroad part of the world can’t be 95% of some 2700 year old sample. It’s not only logical but qpadm analysis also supports it

[Halgurd]

Not just kurds anyone from that crossroad part of the world can’t be 95% of some 2700 year old sample. It’s not only logical but qpadm analysis also supports it

It’s not just one sample - it is multiple. If those individuals were alive today they would be indistinguishable to other Kurds and you already know this.

[Zoro]

Okay, so how can Kurdish descend from Parthian if Kurds have been mentioned in the history books prior to the Parthian and even alongside the Parthians e.g Corduene. Classical Kurds and Parthians were two separate peoples.

Feyli Kurdish or “Kurdi-ye Vali” as a northwestern Iranian dialect is closer to the Parthian. Past perfect tense is attested in the Parthian literature and it also exists in the Feyli Kurdish,

Parthian and Feyli Kurdish have a same method to construct the past perfect tense. Indeed, the historical process of the formation of the past perfect is not different in Parthian and Feyli Kurdish

. https://sciarena.com/storage/models/...i-dialects.pdf

[Halgurd]

. https://sciarena.com/storage/models/...i-dialects.pdf

Most of those words are the same/similar to other dialects. In fact, Feyli is classified as southern Kurmanj.

Plus - no one denies the similarities between Parthian and Kurdish. It is simply chronologically impossible for the Kurdish language to stem from Parthian.

[Token]

Read the Southern Arc paper and according to the writers of that paper proto-Uralics had maybe some proto-Indo-Iranian loanwords. Nothing special to invent crazy theories about it.

Not really for any significance here.

The Southern Arc paper agrees that the Indo-Iranians came from the steppe. Dozens of Proto-Indo-Iranic and Proto-Iranic loanwords into Proto-Uralic and Proto-Finno-Ugric, including the fact that "Aryan" in Proto-Uralic (a Siberian hunter-gatherer language) means slave, prove that the Indo-Iranians lived in the northern steppes and not in western Asia, which is the dominant view among linguists and archaeologists.

Pre-Indo-Iranian
*ertä ‘side’, *kekrä ‘wheel’, *kečrä ‘spindle’, *mekši ‘bee’, (*meti ‘honey’), *ońća ‘part’,
(*orpa ‘orphan’), *peijas ‘feast’, *pejmä ‘milk’, Pre-P *pertä ‘wing’, *repä ‘fox’, *rećmä
‘rope’, *sejti ‘bridge’

Proto-Indo-Iranian
*aćtara ‘whip’, *anti/onta, *ora ‘awl’, *orja ‘slave; south’, (*orpa ‘orphan’), *pośi ‘penis’,
*śaŋka ‘handle’, Pre-Md *śaγa ‘goat’, *śarwi ‘horn’, *śaδa- ‘to rain’, śara- ‘shit’, *śi̮ta
‘hundred’, Pre-P *śVta ‘hundred’, *śasra ‘thousand’, *śišta ‘wax’, *śoma- ‘sad’, *waćara
‘hammer’, *woraći ‘boar’

Uncertain cases
*ćaŋka- ‘to sting’, *ćara- ‘brown; ? to dawn’, *ćarapa ‘elk’, *ćero ‘hill-top’,? *ćerti ‘group’,
*porćas, PUg *śeŋkV ‘nail’ 

Proto-Iranian
(*ačwa ‘horse’) *mača ‘insect’, *očra ‘barley’, *počaw ‘reindeer’, *päčäɣ ‘reindeer’, *serä
‘old’, *šoji- ‘to care’, *šukta ‘burnt patch’

Ambiguous early loans (can be either from PII or PI)
*ajša ‘shaft’, *asVra ‘lord’, *iha ‘yearning. passion’, *ihta ‘lust’, *jama ‘twin’, *jawi/jowa
(> Mo juv) ‘awn’, *jawi (> PS *jäə̑) ‘flour’, *ji̮ni ‘way, path’, *juma ‘god’, *kana- ‘to dig’,
*kara- ‘to dig’, *kata- ‘to graze’, *kertä- ‘to bind’, *ki̮ntaw ‘tree stump’, *kürtńV ‘iron’, PKh
*kǟrtV ‘iron’, *kärtä ‘iron’, *martas ‘dead’, *ńātV- ‘to help’, *pakas ‘god’, *para ‘good’,
Kh pĕnt ‘way’, PMs *pē̮ńtV ‘brother-in-law’, *pora ‘old’, *poči- ‘to boil’, Pre-P *porta
‘vessel’, *puntaksi ‘bottom’, Pre-Ma *pänti- ‘to bind’, PMa *pärća ‘ear of corn’, *pätäri- ‘to
flee’, *saγi- ‘to get, obtain’, *sampas ‘pillar’, *saŋka ‘old’, *sara ‘lake’, *sasara ‘sister’,
*säptä ‘seven’, *tajwas ‘sky’, *takra ‘piece of flesh’, *tarna ‘grass’, *tojwV ‘wish’, *toraksi
‘through’, *tora- ‘to fight’, *täjV ‘milk’, *täjinV ‘cow’, *täši, *uška ‘bull’, *wakša- (> PS
*wåtå-) ‘to grow’, *wajna- ‘to see’, *wojna- ‘to see’, *wiša ‘venom’, *wi̮rna ‘wool’, *wärkä
‘kidney’, PS *wǝ̑rkǝ̑ ‘wolf’, *wirtV- ‘to hold, raise’, *äŋkärä ‘coal’

https://helda.helsinki.fi/bitstream/...=1&isAllowed=y

Keep coping Kurd.