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Thread: Southeast England was 80% replaced by Anglo-Saxons in the Early Middle Ages

  1. #201
    Veteran Member celticdragongod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creoda View Post
    Exterminated? I'm not a Hollywood director, replacing history with atrocity propaganda.

    Gaels from Ulster invaded and settled in Northern Britain in the Early Middle Ages, supplanting the native Britons/Picts and their language, and giving rise to the Kingdom of Scotland - just as the Anglo-Saxons were doing in Southern Britain, giving rise to the Kingdom of England.

    But the Picts survived in Scotland. Most Scots probably have some Pictish ancestry.

  2. #202
    Veteran Member celticdragongod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creoda View Post
    No. The English, Welsh and Scottish are all native to Britain. Possibly only the Welsh are mostly descended from Celtic Britons, Brittonic ancestry in England ranges from 11 to 57%.
    The Scots and the Welsh would have the most native ancestry while the English would have the least since they would be most closely related to the Anglo-Saxon invaders.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by celticdragongod View Post
    But the Picts survived in Scotland. Most Scots probably have some Pictish ancestry.
    Well they didn't survive as an ethnic group. Their language went extinct and their territory is now called Scotland, not Pictland. They were assimilated into the Scottish nation, just as the Romano-Britons were assimilated into the English nation.
    Quote Originally Posted by celticdragongod View Post
    The Scots and the Welsh would have the most native ancestry while the English would have the least since they would be most closely related to the Anglo-Saxon invaders.
    Most probably, but I'm sure there are Western English areas with more native Brittonic ancestry than the Scots, and Western parts of Scotland with less Brittonic ancestry than the English. I mean SW Scottish still cluster with Irish, and away from the Brittonic Welsh.
    Spoiler!

  4. #204
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    Thanks to Matt who posted this on Eurogenes. It is simulated G25 but will do until the samples are available.

    https://imgur.com/a/qirF9OP




    If anyone wants to try this model.

    Code:
    WBI_High_Steppe,0.128730,0.128300,0.062617,0.061553,0.030410,0.022574,0.002050,0.005672,-0.000362,-0.006610,-0.005840,0.005823,-0.013402,-0.016292,0.025785,0.003740,-0.010485,0.000061,0.002267,0.004058,0.005806,0.000785,-0.001412,0.011609,-0.001410
    WBI_Low_Steppe,0.129305,0.135141,0.060828,0.046345,0.039789,0.015908,0.002444,0.004403,0.007235,0.006982,-0.004418,0.006456,-0.015182,-0.015062,0.020936,0.006534,-0.005686,0.001864,0.001458,0.002626,0.005754,0.004075,-0.002542,0.005046,-0.000728
    CNE_High_Steppe,0.127468,0.128362,0.069381,0.068759,0.037263,0.025570,0.003734,0.008458,-0.002031,-0.012373,-0.006355,0.004424,-0.009147,-0.010311,0.027611,0.006331,-0.010648,0.001552,0.005925,0.007078,0.008500,0.002255,0.000434,0.019884,-0.001466
    CNE_Low_Steppe,0.128043,0.135203,0.067592,0.053551,0.046642,0.018904,0.004128,0.007190,0.005567,0.001218,-0.004933,0.005057,-0.010927,-0.009081,0.022762,0.009124,-0.005849,0.003355,0.005116,0.005645,0.008448,0.005546,-0.000695,0.013320,-0.000783
    CWE_High_Steppe,0.112584,0.124165,0.051700,0.050046,0.027339,0.020163,-0.002210,0.005569,0.000012,-0.005106,-0.006901,0.005746,-0.012063,-0.012609,0.018550,-0.000029,-0.012763,-0.001909,0.001048,-0.000329,0.003785,-0.002257,-0.000959,0.015695,-0.003657
    CWE_Low_Steppe,0.113159,0.131006,0.049911,0.034837,0.036718,0.013496,-0.001816,0.004301,0.007609,0.008485,-0.005479,0.006379,-0.013843,-0.011379,0.013701,0.002764,-0.007964,-0.000106,0.000240,-0.001762,0.003733,0.001033,-0.002089,0.009132,-0.002974
    Use this below to get the combined result.

    Code:
    WBI,0.128730,0.128300,0.062617,0.061553,0.030410,0.022574,0.002050,0.005672,-0.000362,-0.006610,-0.005840,0.005823,-0.013402,-0.016292,0.025785,0.003740,-0.010485,0.000061,0.002267,0.004058,0.005806,0.000785,-0.001412,0.011609,-0.001410
    WBI,0.129305,0.135141,0.060828,0.046345,0.039789,0.015908,0.002444,0.004403,0.007235,0.006982,-0.004418,0.006456,-0.015182,-0.015062,0.020936,0.006534,-0.005686,0.001864,0.001458,0.002626,0.005754,0.004075,-0.002542,0.005046,-0.000728
    CNE,0.127468,0.128362,0.069381,0.068759,0.037263,0.025570,0.003734,0.008458,-0.002031,-0.012373,-0.006355,0.004424,-0.009147,-0.010311,0.027611,0.006331,-0.010648,0.001552,0.005925,0.007078,0.008500,0.002255,0.000434,0.019884,-0.001466
    CNE,0.128043,0.135203,0.067592,0.053551,0.046642,0.018904,0.004128,0.007190,0.005567,0.001218,-0.004933,0.005057,-0.010927,-0.009081,0.022762,0.009124,-0.005849,0.003355,0.005116,0.005645,0.008448,0.005546,-0.000695,0.013320,-0.000783
    CWE,0.112584,0.124165,0.051700,0.050046,0.027339,0.020163,-0.002210,0.005569,0.000012,-0.005106,-0.006901,0.005746,-0.012063,-0.012609,0.018550,-0.000029,-0.012763,-0.001909,0.001048,-0.000329,0.003785,-0.002257,-0.000959,0.015695,-0.003657
    CWE,0.113159,0.131006,0.049911,0.034837,0.036718,0.013496,-0.001816,0.004301,0.007609,0.008485,-0.005479,0.006379,-0.013843,-0.011379,0.013701,0.002764,-0.007964,-0.000106,0.000240,-0.001762,0.003733,0.001033,-0.002089,0.009132,-0.002974
    Target: Grace_scaled
    Distance: 1.7804% / 0.01780439
    65.0 WBI
    35.0 CNE
    Last edited by Grace O'Malley; 09-26-2022 at 08:52 AM.
    The Irish Brigade's battle cry at Fontenoy, "Cuimhnigí ar Luimneach agus ar feall na Sasanaigh," translates to "Remember Limerick and the treachery of the English." After seeing the devastation caused by the Irish Brigade, the Duke of Cumberland reportedly remarked, "God curse the laws that made those men our enemies".


  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace O'Malley View Post
    Thanks to Matt who posted this on Eurogenes. It is simulated G25 but will do until the samples are available.
    If i am not wrong, Matt used 4 Sarrebourg samples for CWE. I dont really understand why, as we are not sure all of them are really locals.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.S. View Post
    If i am not wrong, Matt used 4 Sarrebourg samples for CWE. I dont really understand why, as we are not sure all of them are really locals.
    It will be good when the samples are available. I'm most interested in the Kilteasheen samples as they are from close to where my father comes from.
    The Irish Brigade's battle cry at Fontenoy, "Cuimhnigí ar Luimneach agus ar feall na Sasanaigh," translates to "Remember Limerick and the treachery of the English." After seeing the devastation caused by the Irish Brigade, the Duke of Cumberland reportedly remarked, "God curse the laws that made those men our enemies".


  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace O'Malley View Post
    It will be good when the samples are available. I'm most interested in the Kilteasheen samples as they are from close to where my father comes from.
    How lucky you are to have such a study...

    "France, unfortunately, was an absent subscriber in relation to genetic studies. Even today, for reasons I don't want to go into details, but rather political and administrative reasons, it is very difficult to carry out genetic studies on the French." Professor Luis Quintana-Murci


    Translation:
    Spoiler alert: even in the year 1000, this sentence was already true...! And not just because "the Gauls" never existed: the Middle Ages were woven with dense currents of immigration, in all directions and at all times.

    The guy is a college student in Medieval History.

    So, yes, you are (still) very very lucky...
    Last edited by J.S.; 09-26-2022 at 12:25 PM.

  8. #208
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    Worth mentioning that despite having a Gaelic surname that comes from the west of Scotland, I have what is thought to be Pictish Y-DNA, R1b-L1065, as do most of the chiefs of the major Scottish clans, also worth mentioning that Gaelic Kings became kings of Alba, the term Scotland was a later adoption, and originally these Gaelic speaking Kings were referred to as king of the Picts, not Kings of the Gaels or Scots, then, of course, there is the Kingdom of Strathclyde which survived into the 12th century, unless there was some undocumented mass genocide then Scots have plenty of Brythonic ancestry.

    Target: Albannach_scaled
    Distance: 2.1375% / 0.02137513
    68.6 WBI
    31.4 CNE

  9. #209
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    Distance to: Africanwidow
    0.02150433 CNE_Low_Steppe
    0.02588305 CNE_High_Steppe
    0.02781625 WBI_High_Steppe
    0.03123942 WBI_Low_Steppe
    0.04114940 CWE_High_Steppe
    0.04733266 CWE_Low_Steppe

    Target: Africanwidow
    Distance: 1.8876% / 0.01887581
    56.8 CNE_Low_Steppe
    43.2 CNE_High_Steppe
    Last edited by Africanwidow; 09-27-2022 at 08:35 PM.

  10. #210
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    Target: Ryo_scaled
    Distance: 3.2395% / 0.03239514 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    47.8 CWE_Low_Steppe
    34.6 CNE_Low_Steppe
    17.6 CWE_High_Steppe

    Target: Ryo_scaled
    Distance: 3.2395% / 0.03239512
    52.4 CWE_Low_Steppe
    30.0 CNE_Low_Steppe
    13.0 CWE_High_Steppe
    4.6 CNE_High_Steppe
    Eurogenes K13: North_Dutch + Spanish_Murcia + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.395628

    G25 Ancient + Modern: Distance: 3.0211% / 0.03021062
    48.2 VK2020_England_Dorset_VA
    19.0 VK2020_Isle_Of_Man_VA
    16.2 Spanish_Pais_Vasco
    10.0 French_Paris
    6.6 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

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