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I am not sure how people can even deny the Illyrian origin of Albanian at this point.
Versions of "Arbën" have been observed since the 2nd century BC, the History of the World written by Polybius, mentions a location named Arbona (ancient greek Ἄρβωνα, latin Arbo)[19][20] in which some Illyrian troops, under Queen Teuta, scattered and fled to in order to escape the Romans. Arbona was perhaps an island in Liburnia or another location within Illyria.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_ArbanonN. G. L. Hammond has pointed out that the name Abroi and Albanoi gave rise to the name Albania/Albanians, similar to the spread of the name Illyria/Illyrians from a small group of people on the Adriatic coast, the Illyrioi. This process can also be seen in the case of Graeci and Hellenes.[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abroi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanoi
Illyrians were Yamnaya derived like Greeks and not from Corded Ware or Bell Beaker like Italic and Celts. Albanian is related to Messapic and then followed by Greek.
J-L283 is a haplogroup which spread with Yamnaya migrations in the Balkans and the first J-L283 to be found in Europe comes from Late Yamnaya Moldova (ca. 3000 BCE, unpublished). Phylogeographer mentions the same sample in this video
So J2b2-L283 is confirmed Yamnaya and not Bell Beaker , together with R-Z2103/R-PF7563 they were found in Maros, Iron Age Albania etc and was found in Maykop and are present among the Iapygians of Illyrian origin and J-L283 was a major lineage among Illyrians found in the Bronze Age Cetina culture of the Western Balkans: https://www.researchgate.net/publica...h_perspectives .
Today they also make up some of the most common Albanian lineages.
They have nothing to do with Bell Beaker, Corded Ware or any kind of Italic or Celts who belonged to different branches of R1b. And there is nothing that supports an origin from there. Oldest J2b2 we have are from the Balkans and areas close to the Steppes.
Those two Etruscan J2b2 are of Balkan origin and post date Illyian movements into Italy. Illyrian J2b2 came into conflict with Bell Beaker, Slovenia was a contact zone of Celts, Italics, Illyrians etc. so we see some Bell Beaker derived R1b around those areas and contact with Illyrians and Italics / proto-Liburnians, Proto-Histri and Proto-Venetic. R-Z2103/R-PF7563 and J-L283 in Italy is largely due to Illyrian movements into the area.
E-V13 is a marker which is not even related to the Steppes at this point but we will eventually see where it fits.
Iron Age Balkans was different from Iron Age Italy or Iberia, autosomally Iron Age Italy mainly overlapped with the Northern Balkans. Many autosomal overlaps are nothing but coincidences or due to contacts such as Liburnians, Histirans and Venetic were most likely not Illyrians. And we see Southern Europe shifts more east during Roman period. Many J2b2 and E-V13 we have from Roman period plot more East close to the modern Southern Balkan cluster (Albanian, Greek, Macedonian etc) and overlap with Eastern shifted Italians.
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Originally Posted by Ajeje Brazorf
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