Where the hell did E-V13 come from?

[hazmatnik]

Very possible your guess is as good as mine what happened 4000 to 1000 years ago.

How would you comment my autosomal matches from Greece, many are E-V13 and R1b on 23andme?



Purple star is our Y cousin TMRCA is 2100 years.

[catgeorge]

How would you comment my autosomal matches from Greece, many are E-V13 and R1b on 23andme?



Purple star is our Y cousin TMRCA is 2100 years.

Not sure tbh - Maybe Balkan ancestry is all very similar with differing variations that makes each ethnicity unique from each other- R1b probably came from Anatolian Neolithic.

[kingmob]

my autosomal matches from Greece, many are E-V13 and R1b on 23andme?

What kind of R1b.

[hazmatnik]

What kind of R1b.

R-PF7558 and R-BY250 mostly.

[kingmob]

R-PF7558 and R-BY250 mostly.

The first one is found in the recent ancient Greek samples published (Skourtanioti et al., 2022) and, in my opinion, is a proto-Greek speaker marker.

The second one is downstream of Balkan Yamnaya (Z2106).

[hazmatnik]

The first one is found in the recent ancient Greek samples published (Skourtanioti et al., 2022) and, in my opinion, is a proto-Greek speaker marker.

The second one is downstream of Balkan Yamnaya (Z2106).

My aunts (especially maternal aunt) matches are even more interesting and puzzling. Lot of islands.

[Snake_]

Do any of you guys have any clues where E-V13 came from? For instance, from which ancient tribe(s) do you think this lineage first originated? It doesn't seem closely linked to Thracians and Illyrians at all (as those were most likely either R1b-Z2103 or J2b2--L283 according to ancient DNA studies which dealt with Iron and Bronze Age remains). Moreover, it also seems loosely tied to Ancient Greeks (it only showed up in 2 samples from a Late Greek Iron Age site in Sicily but didn't show up in any earlier samples from the Mycenaean and Minoan periods so far). Its present-day high frequencies in the Balkans (especially among Kosovar Albanians) appear to have been caused by a relatively recent founder effect. Truth be told, it does look like its presence on the European continent may not be as old as we think it is.

I know this is an extremely touchy subject for many people on this forum, but I'd still like to hear you guys' opinions on the matter.

It has actually been found among Iron Age Thracians (900 BC) and also found in Iron Age Sicily (400 BC). And was abundant in the Balkans during the Roman period. It's just not maybe linked to the steppes or proto-Thracians. One Ancient sample from Albania was also found to be R1b-PF7563 btw.

[Snake_]

It's parent E-L618 was also found in Croatia, Macedonia etc and I believe one E-V13 found in Neolithic spain.

[Snake_]

Interesting insight. Maybe E-V13 has something to do with the Pelasgians? How do you think Albanians got this haplogroup though? Are Proto-Albanians originally a Pelasgian tribe (represented by E-V13) that has assimilated and mixed with various Thraco-Illyrian groups (represented by R1b-Z2103 and J2b2-L283)? Perhaps they were the opposite? That is a Thraco-Illyrian population that has absorbed a Pelasgian element (probably in Roman times) before the Slavic invasions of the Balkans.

No, classical Thracians had mostly E-V13 and some R1a-Z93. Glasinac Mati Illyrians were J2b2-L283, R1b-Z2103-CTS1450 and R-PF7563. I am not saying that all E-V13 in the Balkans or Europe can be attributed to Thracians but that classical Thracians clearly had this Y-DNA. Pelasgians were a non-IE speaking people so cannot be possibly related to proto-Albanian, an IE language considered to of arrived in the Balkans during the Bronze Age.

[Power77]

It has been found in Iron Age Sicily (400 BC).

Sounds like one of the Late Greek Iron Age samples I mentioned in my first post.