Final Realistic Iberian Calculator

**Jingle Bell** · 01-16-2023, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by Mingle

When other users add Visigoth though, they get some percentage from it. I don't think Goths had a significant impact, but maybe 5-10%, so worth including imo. And in the example you showed, the second sample is slightly more Germanic shifted.

Originally Posted by Feiichy

There is Germanic autosomal admixture in Iberians (higher in west Iberia than east) and any model without Germanic proxy is thus inadequate.

The problem is Germanic overlap with Proto-Celt. . .
The germanic ancestry in begin read as Hallsttat so isnt rly a problem, 5% dont will change that much

**Jana** · 01-16-2023, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by Jingle Bell

The problem is Germanic overlap with Proto-Celt. . .
The germanic ancestry in begin read as Hallsttat so isnt rly a problem, 5% dont will change that much

They don't overlap actually.

Proto Celts were closer to SW Europeans than to Germanics genetically. You can use Austria IA average.
but maybe for Iberians France IA is better...(not north shifted ones tho)

**Jingle Bell** · 01-16-2023, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by Feiichy

They don't overlap actually.

Proto Celts were closer to SW Europeans than to Germanics genetically. You can use Austria IA average.

I alr tried mamy times, at individuals level some iberians were scoring 50% Hallsttat amd other 40% Suebi

**Jingle Bell** · 01-16-2023, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by Feiichy

They don't overlap actually.

Proto Celts were closer to SW Europeans than to Germanics genetically. You can use Austria IA average.
but maybe for Iberians France IA is better...(not north shifted ones tho)

Also Hallsttat, La Tene and Urnfield were also closer to germanics than to sw euros . . .
https://imgur.com/3Vn7vtZ

Trust me , i alr tried a lot of times use both Hallsttat and Germanics in the same calculator, and never works or makes sense

**Wâldpykjong** · 01-16-2023, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by Jingle Bell

I alr tried mamy times, at individuals level some iberians were scoring 50% Hallsttat amd other 40% Suebi

You need to get rid of the Suebi outliers. Aka the one's plotting as Hallstatt like individuals since they are mixed. Don't look at individual results, only the averages as they are the only thing that matters... More accurate as well.

Belgians and Swiss Germans are far for being representative for Suebi admixture in Spaniards. They aren't ''pure'' Migration Period Germanics.

**Jingle Bell** · 01-16-2023, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by Wâldpykjong

You need to get rid of the Suebi outliers. Aka the one's plotting as Hallstatt like individuals since they are mixed. Don't look at individual results, only the averages as they are the only thing that matters... More accurate as well.

I mean testing in Individuals iberians, i always use averages on source but individuals in target

**Eurafricanid** · 01-16-2023, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by Damião de Góis

Target: Gil_Vicente
Distance: 1.6517% / 0.01651689
53.4 Proto-Celts
23.6 Iberia_BA
11.8 Greeks_Colonies/Romans
11.2 Berbers_&_Guanches

Replacing Gauls:

Target: Gil_Vicente
Distance: 1.4243% / 0.01424347
45.8 Gauls
26.4 Iberia_BA
13.2 Greeks_Colonies/Romans
10.2 Berbers_&_Guanches
4.4 Phoenicians_of_Iberia

Adding Visigoths:

Target: Gil_Vicente
Distance: 1.3910% / 0.01391002
33.0 Gauls
25.2 Iberia_BA
12.6 Greeks_Colonies/Romans
11.8 Visigoth
9.6 Berbers_&_Guanches
7.8 Phoenicians_of_Iberia

With everyone:

Target: Gil_Vicente
Distance: 1.3908% / 0.01390774
33.0 Gauls
25.4 Iberia_BA
13.0 Greeks_Colonies/Romans
11.4 Visigoth
9.8 Berbers_&_Guanches
7.0 Phoenicians_of_Iberia
0.4 Proto-Celts

So the fit gets better as i add populations. Of course "Gauls" doesn't make sense to me as a southern portuguese, so i suspect something similar might be missing, maybe west iberia IA celtic speaking samples.

The distance getting smaller is not exactly the point of the model, but you can do whatever you want.

**Dušan** · 01-16-2023, 08:45 PM

Obviously not very good for Balkan Slavs...

Target: Dušan_g25
Distance: 3.4256% / 0.03425621
77.8 Proto-Celts
21.2 Greeks_Colonies/Romans
1.0 Imperial_Romans

Get close distance only if add Ukrainian immigrants.

Target: Dušan_g25
Distance: 1.2472% / 0.01247218
63.2 Ukrainian_Chernihiv
19.8 Greeks_Colonies/Romans
15.0 Imperial_Romans
2.0 Ukrainian_Sumy

**Jingle Bell** · 01-16-2023, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by Damião de Góis

Target: Gil_Vicente
Distance: 1.6517% / 0.01651689
53.4 Proto-Celts
23.6 Iberia_BA
11.8 Greeks_Colonies/Romans
11.2 Berbers_&_Guanches

Replacing Gauls:

Target: Gil_Vicente
Distance: 1.4243% / 0.01424347
45.8 Gauls
26.4 Iberia_BA
13.2 Greeks_Colonies/Romans
10.2 Berbers_&_Guanches
4.4 Phoenicians_of_Iberia

Adding Visigoths:

Target: Gil_Vicente
Distance: 1.3910% / 0.01391002
33.0 Gauls
25.2 Iberia_BA
12.6 Greeks_Colonies/Romans
11.8 Visigoth
9.6 Berbers_&_Guanches
7.8 Phoenicians_of_Iberia

With everyone:

Target: Gil_Vicente
Distance: 1.3908% / 0.01390774
33.0 Gauls
25.4 Iberia_BA
13.0 Greeks_Colonies/Romans
11.4 Visigoth
9.8 Berbers_&_Guanches
7.0 Phoenicians_of_Iberia
0.4 Proto-Celts

So the fit gets better as i add populations. Of course "Gauls" doesn't make sense to me as a southern portuguese, so i suspect something similar might be missing, maybe west iberia IA celtic speaking samples.

Yeah, i never stoped to think that Gauls can be using as a proxy for Western Hispano Celts like Gallaecians, since they are more EEF admixed than Hallsttat, good observation

**Eurafricanid** · 01-16-2023, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by Feiichy

There is Germanic autosomal admixture in Iberians (higher in west Iberia than east) and any model without Germanic proxy is thus inadequate.

Originally Posted by Mingle

When other users add Visigoth though, they get some percentage from it. I don't think Goths had a significant impact, but maybe 5-10%, so worth including imo. And in the example you showed, the second sample is slightly more Germanic shifted.

I don't think so, the Germanic admixed individuals are going to get more hallsttat, but since y'all want germanics sooo much, here it is! (BTW all the samples I used are pure Germanic)

Originally Posted by Feiichy

They don't overlap actually.

Proto Celts were closer to SW Europeans than to Germanics genetically. You can use Austria IA average.
but maybe for Iberians France IA is better...(not north shifted ones tho)

Originally Posted by Wâldpykjong

You need to get rid of the Suebi outliers. Aka the one's plotting as Hallstatt like individuals since they are mixed. Don't look at individual results, only the averages as they are the only thing that matters... More accurate as well.

Belgians and Swiss Germans are far for being representative for Suebi admixture in Spaniards. They aren't ''pure'' Migration Period Germanics.

Distance to: Germanic_Ruler:Gothic
0.01448435 Swedish
0.01508453 Icelandic
0.01692196 Danish
0.01902164 Norwegian
0.02439158 Dutch

Distance to: Germanic_Ruler

EU_MA_Alemanic_Byzantine:NIEcap12c
0.02731179 Danish
0.02808826 Dutch
0.02963313 Icelandic
0.03069101 Norwegian
0.03088554 Orcadian

Distance to: Germanic_Ruler

EU_MA:ALH_1
0.02721476 Danish
0.02731572 Dutch
0.02753050 Swedish
0.03086766 Orcadian
0.03093697 Icelandic

Distance to: Germanic_Ruler

EU_MA:AED_106
0.04386454 Danish
0.04456042 Swedish
0.04542898 Norwegian
0.04586898 Icelandic
0.04755678 Dutch

Distance to: Germanic_Ruler:Migration_LIB:Suebi:LIB2
0.03102445 Danish
0.03209491 Swedish
0.03235578 Icelandic
0.03666552 Norwegian
0.03739100 Dutch