How Countries in the British Isles Got Their Names

[rothaer]

[Grahn-Hoek rejects a left-rhineish Thuringian empire] On what grounds?

I will have its grounds that I didn't remember and had to review it. It's complicated. She states that the assumption of such an empire - which is done by the majority of scholars - is based on 6 reasons and then she elaborates in detail why she considers these reasons not correct or at least not enough supportive for such an assumption.

The main direction seems to be that she considers Gregory of Tours simply wrong in some points regarding the time that he didn't experience himself (he also reports that the Franks hailed from Pannonia) and that Thuringia politically streched till the Rhine river and a number occurances assumed on the left Rhine side were in fact on the right Rhine side.

The 41 pages article Gab es vor 531 ein linksniederrheinisches Thüringerreich? is in German and available here:

https://www.mgh-bibliothek.de/dokumente/a/a106907.pdf

It's very interesting and worth reading in any case considering how many subjects it touches. Maybe you have the possibility of an automated translation.

[#Oda#]

...

As a sidenote: It‘s always interesting how there are similarities between English and Low German, but none with High German. For example: To jabber is jabbeln in Low German, but there‘s no similar word in High German for this. I‘m collecting these similarities and this is a new one I discovered. Same for late = laat in Low German, but totally different in High German (später), or clock and Klock, but Uhr in High German, and many more.

[rothaer]

As a sidenote: It‘s always interesting how there are similarities between English and Low German, but none with High German. For example: To jabber is jabbeln in Low German, but there‘s no similar word in High German for this. I‘m collecting these similarities and this is a new one I discovered. Same for late = laat in Low German, but totally different in High German (später), or clock and Klock, but Uhr in High German, and many more.

I just noticed that Mingle's latest comment on TA was in this thread before my extensive answers and he must be reported MIA the 28th of April 2024.

[rothaer]

As a sidenote: It‘s always interesting how there are similarities between English and Low German, but none with High German. For example: To jabber is jabbeln in Low German, but there‘s no similar word in High German for this. I‘m collecting these similarities and this is a new one I discovered. Same for late = laat in Low German, but totally different in High German (später), or clock and Klock, but Uhr in High German, and many more.

Interesting. I’ll mention some more and you can tell if you accept them and if you already had them.

Kin(ship) - Künne

I guess it’s unavoidable that the words have once been pan Germanic or do you exclude such words?

[#Oda#]

Interesting. I’ll mention some more and you can tell if you accept them and if you already had them.

Kin(ship) - Künne

I guess it’s unavoidable that the words have once been pan Germanic or do you exclude such words?

exclude: no

Künne I only know in the sense of lore (Kunde), not kin, but I‘m quite sure that kin and Kunde/Künne have the same root, would make sense.
I looked Künne up in an online East Frisian Low German dictionary and it gives the following translations: knowledge, capability, consciousness, sense and lore.

(What does MIA mean?)

[rothaer]

exclude: no

Künne I only know in the sense of lore (Kunde), not kin, but I‘m quite sure that kin and Kunde/Künne have the same root, would make sense.
I looked Künne up in an online East Frisian Low German dictionary and it gives the following translations: knowledge, capability, consciousness, sense and lore.

What you say is derived from können, Kunst. Künne is derived from something like Gothic kuni (an organised subdividion of a people, maybe clan-like) and is urverwandt with GENealogy and GENetics. Charmingly, an etymologically German word for genealogy would actually include your Kunde wort stem: Künnekunde. I should go on with introducing it in German and I became half seriously encouraged for that by Dr. T. K.

"se hett nig kind edder künne, 'weder kinder noch anverwandten', de kümt mit kind un künne, 'mit der ganzen familie', vgl. Frisch 1, 557ᵃ kind und künne mitbringen als pomm., der stabreim hat es bewahrt, wie ähnlich hd. kind und kegel"

Here it's extensively elaborated and I don't see it in High German:

https://www.dwds.de/wb/dwb/k%C3%BCnne

(What does MIA mean?)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_in_action

[rothaer]

(...) I‘m collecting these similarities (...)

Inspired by Albionic nuclear perfidies:

little - lütt
boy - boje, boi, boy (in Frisian, however, that is counted to the Old German tribes)

[Mingle]

I just noticed that Mingle's latest comment on TA was in this thread before my extensive answers and he must be reported MIA the 28th of April 2024.

I was planning to reply, but got busy, and forgot to return. I forgot some of the info discussed here, but it was a very interesting discussion, and I look forward to rereading it. I think a separate thread in the future on Thuringians would be nice too. And I'll make sure to not go MIA again like that.

[Mingle]

I find it too unfitting to the very different etymology of other Germanic tribe names in spite of having Holsaten in mind.

Elaborate?

With Angrians, yes.

Why not Cherusci?

Also in these cases there was no one-to-one continuity of the people. In contrast, the Carantaian lands did not even overlap with later Slovene areas and the Prussian name was just taken as a trick by the marchgrave (an elector) of Brandenburg to deceive other Germans and to try to get accepted to be called a king within the German empire. (He was king of Prussia like the Elector of Saxony was also the king of Poland. But both these lands were outside of the German Empire and it did not justify to be called a king in Germany. The other dukes were very thorough with that. After all had got used to that the Elector of Brandenburg also was called the king in Prussia, the latter step by step dropped being called Elector of Brandenburg. He first changend IN Prussia to OF Prussia and eventually changed the name of his state. And it worked the others could finally be tricked to accept him being called a king in Germany.)

But Bavarians obviously aren't descended from the Celtic Boi since they're Germans. They would have obviously used a different name before. Based on the geography of the Marcomanni, it makes most sense they were the same people as the ones that would later adopt Bavarian identity.

Do you think Bavarians were formed separately by the merging of different Germanic tribes similar to Thuringians?

I had claimed that this is uncertain and that I don’t believe it. There is not just that Ronneburg close to Hannover but also a Ronneburg at Nebra and a Ruhnsburg at the Hainleite. But after I now read more about it, I have to change my mind. I now also assume Runibergun to be southwest of Hannover.

This implicates that indeed all of Eastfalia will have been Thuringian.

If you remember, can you share info on what caused you to change your mind? I'm very curious to read it.

[Mingle]

As a sidenote: It‘s always interesting how there are similarities between English and Low German, but none with High German. For example: To jabber is jabbeln in Low German, but there‘s no similar word in High German for this. I‘m collecting these similarities and this is a new one I discovered. Same for late = laat in Low German, but totally different in High German (später), or clock and Klock, but Uhr in High German, and many more.

Besides having a more recent common origin, there was also greater cultural exchange going on between North Germans and the English during the Hanseatic League or Hansa. Pretty much all Germanics besides Icelanders were involved to a degree, but it was mostly the English, North Germans/Netherlanders, North French, and Scandinavians. A lot of Middle English words are from Low German, and these all entered English during this period. But there's also the more recent common origin of the two languages. Low German and English are both Ingvaeonic or North Sea Germanic languages.



https://pages.uoregon.edu/kimball/grd.Hanse.htm

You might find this interesting too:

"Dieser Dialekt ist moderner als der Westaltmärkische", erklärt Sprachwissenschaftlerin Saskia Luther. Viele Wörter ähnelten englischen Vokabeln. Das Wort "Unkle" ähnelt dem englischen Pendant "uncle" und meint den "Onkel". Auch in der Satzstellung sei der Ostaltmärkische Dialekt dem Englischen ähnlich. "Ick mag dat nicht, gahn rut bi Regen" kommt dem englischen "I dont`t like to go out in the rain" sehr nah und meint, dass jemand bei Regen nicht gerne rausgeht.

https://www.volksstimme.de/sachsen-a...e-blume-596242