Do you think the phenotypical overlap between the English and northern French is understated?

[Watersater79]

The English are genetically halfway between the Dutch, Welsh and northern French. Not denying there are a great swathe of northern Frenchies who do not pass as English (going political; this concerns Francois Hollande or Macron), but on the other hand, excluding all of the Alpine admixture, a great swathe of the northern French do look indistinguishable from the English, but it does not seem to be an uncommon opinion that the northern French still look more similar to those in the SE of the country rather than those immediately across the Channel….

[Oliver109]

I would say that there are a lot of people in northern France who do pass as English or even British, there are borrebies, Keltids, Atlantids, paleo atlantids and subnordics that are very similar to people in England but very few Brunns and Anglo Saxons and Tronders. Having seen some good threads of the northern French curtesy of Flashball i would say that the majority don't pass in Britain but there is a large minority that does.

[Watersater79]

I would say that there are a lot of people in northern France who do pass as English or even British, there are borrebies, Keltids, Atlantids, paleo atlantids and subnordics that are very similar to people in England but very few Brunns and Anglo Saxons and Tronders. Having seen some good threads of the northern French curtesy of Flashball i would say that the majority don't pass in Britain but there is a large minority that does.

In this context, a lot of the time I would say the northern French can look pretty similar to the Welsh, albeit less robust (on average). That Brythonic-Gallic phenotypical overlap could be the reason why people, ironically, still think of the English as looking most Phenotypically similar to the Welsh/Scottish/Irish. Obviously the Anglo-Saxon component within the English genome is outnumbered by these Brythonic and Gallic components. What I mean it is maybe the reason why the English generally resemble the Welsh/Irish more than the Dutch (in terms of facial features). One can’t reiterate how much of a gamechanger those 2022 findings were highlighting that although the English genome is only 40% Anglo-Saxon, it is also only 30% Brythonic; obviously it had been previously assumed that the entirety of the non-Germanic admixture was just Brythonic. I was always suspicious of that considering that there is a decent swathe of Welah people who do not pass as English.

[Oliver109]

In this context, a lot of the time I would say the northern French can look pretty similar to the Welsh, albeit less robust (on average). That Brythonic-Gallic phenotypical overlap could be the reason why people, ironically, still think of the English as looking most Phenotypically similar to the Welsh/Scottish/Irish. Obviously the Anglo-Saxon component within the English genome is outnumbered by these Brythonic and Gallic components. What I mean it is maybe the reason why the English generally resemble the Welsh/Irish more than the Dutch (in terms of facial features). One can’t reiterate how much of a gamechanger those 2022 findings were highlighting that although the English genome is only 40% Anglo-Saxon, it is also only 30% Brythonic; obviously it had been previously assumed that the entirety of the non-Germanic admixture was just Brythonic. I was always suspicious of that considering that there is a decent swathe of Welah people who do not pass as English.

Maybe a bit more like the Welsh but there isn't a strong overlap really, i would say the northern French just mainly look continental and lighter people look more similar to lighter people in south east England.

[Watersater79]

Maybe a bit more like the Welsh but there isn't a strong overlap really, i would say the northern French just mainly look continental and lighter people look more similar to lighter people in south east England.

Maybe not with the NE French but with the NW French it is a different story surely (excluding Brittany)? The English wouldn’t look indistinguishable (to many, even if it is just confirmation bias) to the Irish, if just 30% of their genome was native to the Isles? Obviously the northern French have more of an overlap with the Irish/Welsh than the Northern Germans do. Surely there would have to be enough of a phenotypical overlap. Could you please point me out to some of these threads?

[Oliver109]

Maybe not with the NE French but with the NW French it is a different story surely (excluding Brittany)? The English wouldn’t look indistinguishable (to many, even if it is just confirmation bias) to the Irish, if just 30% of their genome was native to the Isles? Obviously the northern French have more of an overlap with the Irish/Welsh than the Northern Germans do. Surely there would have to be enough of a phenotypical overlap. Could you please point me out to some of these threads?

Bretons are nothing like the Welsh or British, some people can look quite CM or Nordic but the majority are as alpine as people from Bordeux or Lyon. Here is a thread, it's really good and they all come from around Picardy and Pas de Calais
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...orthern-french

[Roy]

I don't think it is. On group level it's hard to confuse the two for someone who have seen enough of both.

[Watersater79]

I don't think it is. On group level it's hard to confuse the two for someone who have seen enough of both.

On the other hand, I take it you find it hard to differentiate between the English and Irish, Roy? This seems to be a common talking point and I don't entirely disagree, even though the English are genetically twice as close to the Dutch as they are to said group (and are still closer than their neighbouring 'British' populations).

[ecptr]

Do you think the phenotypical overlap between the English and northern French is understated?

Understated on this forum or in real life?