Eye colour and Skin pigmentation in KPK and Punjab

[Avicenna]

Ofc not his work, as I said clearly it is written by Guha, Racial Affinities of the people in India, 1931. You read post? Yes Coon only quoted this. And not visited India at all. I was just curious from what source Coon took this 12% in Marathi (as it was no citation) and I found it.
Also Guha said that this Marathi caste was ligthest on whole plain India (and yes it doesn't mean he said about mountain areas in NW).

I dont doubt there are tribes or castes in India with unusually high amount of green eyes or blue eyes. However, the sub continent is extremely populated and very diverse. Genetically and culturally. We can't just paint the whole of the sub continent which is more diverse than Europe with just a few studies of a controversial anthropologist in the early 20th century. I hope the authors provide me with sufficient evidence and information so we can make a good judgement in regards to the study. I don't think we can have a solid opinion when none of us have been to Pakistan .

[Avicenna]

What is the reason you are so obsessed with eye colour and skin pigmentation?

In hospitals there are posters in cataract clinics writing that people with light coloured eyes are more likely to get cataracts from UV radiation exposure outside than darker coloured eyes. Blue eyes are the most prone to cataracts. Dark eye colour is safer for people.

It's a hobby bro, no need to get agitated. Has there been studies done on Sikhs?

[Avicenna]

If you want to reply then answer my question first, instead of replying with a silly question of your own.
My question was, why is Khyber Pakhtunkhwa South Central Asia and not South Asian?

This Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (KPK) was created as the North West Frontier Province (of the British Indian Empire) in 1901 by the British. Before that it was part of Punjab under British. If we go by what you said people in KPK were Punjabis before 1901 and Punjabis, Bengalis, Tamils etc were all Englishmen/British up to 1947.

FYI Pakistan and India were not part of Britain until 1947. India/Pakistan were part of the British Empire. Britain is in Europe. India, Pakistan have always been in Asia. i.e. South Asia.

What was it before punjab? Was it not part of the Afghan empire lmao. In any case I didn't make the comment, KPK is part of modern day Pakistan so it's naturally called south Asia. Couldn't care less tbh

[thisismyaccount]

Why is Khyber Pakhtunkhwa not South Asian?

Under British, it was part of Punjab Province until 1901.

" In 1901, the British carved out the northwest portions of Punjab Province to create the Northwest Frontier Province (NWFP), which was renamed "Khyber Pakhtunkhwa" in 2010.^"

This is rather refering to Peshewar and flat lands. NWFP didnt use to include the more mountainous parts of modern khyber such as Swat, Dir, Bajaur, Tirah, that got annexed later on forcefully. This is because the sikhs shaped the punjab province, and they didnt go much beyond peshewar. They only could conquer so much from Afghanistan. The mountain areas west of Peshewar still remained part of afghanistan

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/...fig1_283851750

It doesn't so much if it's South Asian or not, but historically the mountain areas, most of khyber, wasnt considered part of historical subcontinent.

[Avicenna]

I've just been in contact with the author. He re confirmed the categories and showed me examples of the iris colours, however he due to data privacy he did not release the entire data set.

PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE!!

Examples of "blue" ( including in this is pure light grey/blue and combination of blue/grey with green/yellow and brown centre)



Examples of "Intermediate " ( he strictly mentioned hazel/green/golden yellow eyes)



Examples of "brown" ( including within this category is light brown/medium brown and dark brown)



Participants were selected at random .

[Avicenna]

Other studies involving the classification of eye color based on detailed photographs found a much lower percentage of brown eyes than what would be found with traditional scaled observations. Much of eyes that may appear pure brown have a marginal lighter element if examined closely. A Spanish study (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19551689/) found only 28.3% brown eyes and a high 55.2% hazel-green. Even in the Catalan Pyrenees valleys under Santiago Alcobé pure brown eyes did not reach nearly this low. The deviation from previous scaled data is likely explained by near pure brown eyes being counted as dark hazel. Similar borderline shades may have also been counted as intermediate instead of pure brown here.

As for the blue in this study, it clearly included light mixed eyes as category B based on the example photographs. The 15% may thus be similar to 1a - 6 on the Martin-Schultz scale in which case is about twice that found in Kāfiristān in the Albert Herrlich study. Nuristanis being darker eyed than Punjabis in particular seems quite odd. Perhaps predominantly dark blue-brown eyes were counted differently.

I've spoken to the author , please see above ^

Light mixed + Light not including green seems to have been the "blue" category. Green and hazel was intermediate. For me that's colored eyes, so the percentages seem to be solid.

[rajputprincess]

Yes but usually not at such a disproportionate rate. It hints at a very strong sexual selection for it in males there. Not as much in KPK but stil +2x.

How it can happened? If a women have kids with a light eyes guy then both daughter and son will inherit it

[Mopi Licinius Crassus]

eye colour in my family is highly variable
clearly it's a multi-gene expression

my mother & her family all have blue eyes
my father is one of 6 siblings...4 have brown eyes (including him), 2 have blue eyes

my 3 siblings & I have shades varying from brown to hazel

my twin brother has 2 children who are both blue eyed (mother has blue eyes)
my sister has 2 children who are also both blue eyed (father has hazel/brown eyes)

both of my father's blue eyed siblings have 2 blue eyed children each (with brown eyed partners)

[Avicenna]

How it can happened? If a women have kids with a light eyes guy then both daughter and son will inherit it

This phenomena is not only this study, I've seen other studies where women are significantly less light eyed than men .


alphabet copy and paste

Within the brackets, left is women right is men

[Petalpusher]

How it can happened? If a women have kids with a light eyes guy then both daughter and son will inherit it

Not if the mother has brown eyes. It just shows women have more of a preference for light eyes than men do, or at least they are more successful at actually selecting this trait for reproduction.
Over many generations it begins to make a difference as it get passed down more in male offsprings since they will always display more phenotypical traits of their father, being...well, males.

The difference is just usually not that large, i think it might well be the highest discrepancy in the world in that regard. Females Punjabi have only 7% light eyes which is more in line with their ancestry (exact same rate in PKP for females), the males have an incredibly higher rate in this population, inflating the average.
Statistically in Europe if you are 6 feet tall and light eyes you have something like +30% more chances of reproducing and those 2 are the highest correlation of any traits for it (but they didn't test money), which is already nuts for only two simple things like that. In Punjabi, light eyes alone probably gives you 2 or 300% more chances to reproduce.

But It also shows not nearly all phenotypical differences are due to admixture. Often the features visible on the surface, have a lot to do with sexual selections or both sexes would have nearly the same statistical rate everywhere, since their population admixture is exactly the same in one group between the sexes. Females tend to have more light hair, and males more light eyes, along with lighter skins. This is clearly the effects of heavily favored traits and very consistent in European populations too between men and women:



This is a better methodology by the way, relying on raw spectrometer datas (lower is lighter), instead of visually sorting things with a wet finger. So i wouldn't take the overall rate totally at face values in Punjabi and KPK, it's a ballpark, but the the difference between sexes is real for sure with that landslide gap.