Proto-Hungarian man best fit

[Blondie]

"though the word "Magyar" possibly comes from the name of the most prominent Hungarian tribe, called Megyer. The tribal name "Megyer" became "Magyar" referring to the Hungarian people as a whole
Between the 8th and 5th centuries BC, the Magyars embarked upon their independent existence and the early period of the proto-Hungarian language began.[7]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magyar_tribes

According to science and academy, magyars existed as ethnicity long befor Etelköz.

[oszkar07]

Okay then pls post a hungarian source about it from the Academy. Nobody says that magyars had no any magyar identity before Etelköz, its just your fantasy. Just because the first written mention of "magyar" came from this time, it doesnt mean this name just came out of nowhere. Magyar means human in the old ugric language, the siberian magyars also used this word for each other. The 7 tribe was named after the Megyer leader tribe, obviously they were the oldest ugric core among these nomads, and they had magyar identity.

The Finno-Ugric/Uralic component has the highest identified words of Ugric origin.
However there are more words in Hungarian of unknown origin than there are words of identified Ugric.
Some thoerists proposed the Hungarian title was derived from Onogurs meaning ten tribes or ten arrows.

Without doubt there is a strong finno -ugric component in Hungarian early origins, but we dont know for certain what the words of unknown
origins component comes from. Perhaps it was the language of the Huns, there is not any sources that have recordings -written script of Hunnic language so we cannot be certain either way.

As you would have heard other scholars proposed Sumerian connections which seems maybe unlikely but who knows.

Hungarians are an anomaly -a mystery, we dont know for certain precisely the background of their origins and identity.
I personally believe they were living and speaking Hungarian in the Carpathian Basin for much longer than the offcial mainstream view proposes.

Most likely Arpad was a 2nd migration of Hungarians or related kin tribes to Magyar speakers whom must have already been present in Karpat Mendence upon arrival of the Arpads.

In my speculation I think the Magyar speakers that already were present when the Arpads arrived were possibly either remnants of the Hunnic peoples or possibly misidentified as Avars but were actually Hungarian speakers. Or possibly the Magyar speakers came earlier with the Bulgars when the Bulgars migrated to Europe/Bulgaria.

In fact I came across an article years ago that said the Magyars had travelled with the Bulgars when the Bulgars moved into Europe in the 7th century AD. The article said the Magyar speakers had been identified as Mordvins in some other sources but that they were atually Magyar speakers.

[Blondie]

Without doubt there is a strong finno -ugric component in Hungarian early origins, but we dont know for certain what the words of unknown origins component comes from. Perhaps it was the language of the Huns, there is not any sources that have recordings -written script of Hunnic language so we cannot be certain either way.

These unknown words are most likey proto-uralic. Unfortunately the proto-uralic language is not so well known.

As you would have heard other scholars proposed Sumerian connections which seems maybe unlikely but who knows.

Hungarians were not sumerians for sure. This is a funny theory by ultra nationalists.

I personally believe they were living and speaking Hungarian in the Carpathian Basin for much longer than the offcial mainstream view proposes.

According to the present hungarian mainstream, its very possible that hungarians lived in the Carpathian Basin before Árpáds. There are some references to this, for example Anonymus said that when Árpáds migrated to the Carpathian Basin, near Vereczke, some of the locals (he called them "hungarus" folk) used magyar topography. According to Nestor's Chronicle a group of "black" magyars moved to Pannonia when other hungarians still lived in Etelköz. Although its not fully proven, but the migration of magyars happened between 7-9 century in many waves, Balázs Sudár (leader of Institute of History in MTA) is also talking about it. Just because the sources are limited before the Etelköz period, it doesnt mean that magyars did not exist earlier. This a very good presentation about siberian magyars, unfortunately without english subtitle:

[oszkar07]

These unknown words are most likey proto-uralic. Unfortunately the proto-uralic language is not so well known.



Hungarians were not sumerians for sure. This is a funny theory by ultra nationalists.



According to the present hungarian mainstream, its very possible that hungarians lived in the Carpathian Basin before Árpáds. There are some references to this, for example Anonymus said that when Árpáds migrated to the Carpathian Basin, near Vereczke, some of the locals (he called them "hungarus" folk) used magyar topography. According to Nestor's Chronicle a group of "black" magyars moved to Pannonia when other hungarians still lived in Etelköz. Although its not fully proven, but the migration of magyars happened between 7-9 century in many waves, Balázs Sudár (leader of Institute of History in MTA) is also talking about it. Just because the sources are limited before the Etelköz period, it doesnt mean that magyars did not exist earlier. This a very good presentation about siberian magyars, unfortunately without english subtitle:

Just consider this

Arpads arrived into Hungary 896/897 AD then in only 100 Years later Hungary is made a Christian Hungarian Kingdom under God.

In my oppinion this would not be possible if there was not already a good number of Magyar speaking folk already living in Carpathian Basin.

Firstly when talking about language , why do we say his/her "mother toungue", bcause most of the time children are around their mother
the most in first few years and this is where language hearing and learning begins.

Secondly just consider the amount of War-Military campaigns Hungary is involved in during that first 100 years.

There was so many and campaigns stretching as far as France and Spain, Europe was paying taxes to Hungary to not raid.
Imagine how many men/soldiers died in those external military campaigns, but still Hungary was able to maintain and defend its own territory.

Hungary was very strong military power into the first 300 and more years of Arpad Kings.

The initial detriment to Hungarian power was from the Mongol attacks that also devastated the population.

But prior to that there was had to be a plethora of Hungarians speakers to maintain this identity and language.

So in my oppinion there absolutely had to be Hungarian speakers already in Hungary before Arpads arrived.

[Scarface F]

Okay then pls post a hungarian source about it from the Academy. Nobody says that magyars had no any magyar identity before Etelköz, its just your fantasy. Just because the first written mention of "magyar" came from this time, it doesnt mean this name just came out of nowhere. Magyar means human in the old ugric language, the siberian magyars also used this word for each other. The 7 tribe was named after the Megyer leader tribe, obviously they were the oldest ugric core among these nomads, and they had magyar identity.

Nope. I read a book about Hungarian history exactly issued by MTA (Hungarian academy of sciences). What I wrote is what was stated in the book.

[Scarface F]

Dual conquest theory is dead and refuted with genetic evidence.

[Blondie]

Arpads arrived into Hungary 896/897 AD then in only 100 Years later Hungary is made a Christian Hungarian Kingdom under God.
In my oppinion this would not be possible if there was not already a good number of Magyar speaking folk already living in Carpathian Basin.

I dont see any connection and just because St. Stephen adopted Christianity it does not mean the whole hungarian population became christians very quickly. Many of them practiced tengrism even in the 11-12. century, but of course just secretly. The complete christianization of hungarians happened in 300 years between 9-12 century.

Secondly just consider the amount of War-Military campaigns Hungary is involved in during that first 100 years.
There was so many and campaigns stretching as far as France and Spain, Europe was paying taxes to Hungary to not raid.
Imagine how many men/soldiers died in those external military campaigns, but still Hungary was able to maintain and defend its own territory.

These were not wars or classic military campaigns. Hungarian nomads just robbed easy targets like farms, churches etc in all parts of Europe, but they were not confronted with armies and they did not attack castles either. They defeated smaller regular forces with a special nomad tactics what europeans did not know but thats all. Obviously they had not much casualty during these campaigns, except the Battle of Lechfeld when 5000 nomad died. It was not the complete hungarian army anyway.

Hungary was very strong military power into the first 300 and more years of Arpad Kings.

Medieval Hungary was much bigger than "Great Hungary" in the 19. century. The population number was similar to medieval France or England, of course it means a big army and military capacity.

But prior to that there was had to be a plethora of Hungarians speakers to maintain this identity and language.
Si in my oppinion there absolutely had to be Hungarian speakers already in Hungary before Arpads arrived.

According to Prof. Tibor Török the number of conquerors were not more than 30000-40000 nomad. The estimated population of Carpathian Basin was 0,5-1 million person at this time. If conquerors were more than 30-40k then the hungarian population would be far more asiatic today just like present chuvash or baskhir etc. So there are two theory:

1. Hungarian speakers lived in the Carpathian Basin in big number before Árpáds.
2. This small elite assimilated huge local population somehow.

Majority of profs accept the 1# theory today.

Dual conquest theory is dead and refuted with genetic evidence.

Yes, avars were not hungarians for sure, but i have not talked about this theory.

[Blondie]

According to Anonymus the ethnicities of Carpathian Basin was this:

1. Hungarus: lived in Alföld, Subcarpathia, Transylvania
2. Vlachs: lived in Transylvania and Transdanubia (West Hungary)
3. Bulgarians: lived in Transylvania, South Alföld
4. Slovenes (slavs): lived in northern mountains, Transylvania, Transdanubia and southern areas

[Scarface F]

According to Anonymus the ethnicities of Carpathian Basin was this:

1. Hungarus: lived in Alföld, Subcarpathia, Transylvania
2. Vlachs: lived in Transylvania and Transdanubia (West Hungary)
3. Bulgarians: lived in Transylvania, South Alföld
4. Slovenes (slavs): lived in northern mountains, Transylvania, Transdanubia and southern areas

Slovenes never lives in Pannonia except in far western areas around Vas county but even that is a stetch.
Their core was in southern Austria (Carinthia). I don't get the idea Pannonian Slavs were Slovenes. They were not and neither was their language Slovenian.

[Blondie]

Slovenes never lives in Pannonia except in far western areas around Vas county but even that is a stetch.
Their core was in southern Austria (Carinthia). I don't get the idea Pannonian Slavs were Slovenes. They were not and neither was their language Slovenian.

Slovenes refers to slavs in general, not the slovenian ethnicity. Anonymus called every local slav as slovene.