Proto-Hungarian man best fit

[Varda]

Serbian controversial historian Jovan Deretić claimed that Slavs and others in Pannonia adopted Magyar language on the initiative of Roman church. Without that Magyar warriors which conquered Pannonia would be linguistically slavized with time same as Bulgars in eastern Balkans, because both Magyars and Bulgars eere small minority in the Slavic 'sea.'

[Anatolya]

And they absorbed some other elements except Ugric by the time they arrived in Ukraine/Moldova area (Iranic, Turkic,...)

Also their elites somehow had more Turkic originated names than Ugric ones like Balamber (Balamir), Octar (Ökter), Attila, Dengizic (Tengiz-ig), Ernak (comes from Er-), Charaton (Kara-tun), Uldiz (Ulduz), Mundzcuk (Muncuk), Eitil (İtil/İdil) etc.

[oszkar07]

Dual conquest theory is dead and refuted with genetic evidence.

The genetic studies dont disprove Dual conquest theory.

In certain ways they even suggest its likelihood.

Why, because grave remains of Hungarian commoners taken from just within a few hundred years
of the Conquerors arrival pretty much show same DNA averages of todays Hungarians.

Even some DNA samples of early Hungarian Kings minus the certain eastern components are not so different from modern Hungarians.

[Varda]

Thank you captain obvious.



Therefore they don't claim Magyar tribe is 3000 years old because there is no evidence for it. And they absorbed some other elements except Ugric by the time they arrived in Ukraine/Moldova area (Iranic, Turkic,...)

Turkic Kabars joined to Magyars and together arrived to Pannonia.

[Live The Magic]

Shouldn't stand out in modern Hungary

Looks Slavic or Baltic

[oszkar07]

Serbian controversial historian Jovan Deretić claimed that Slavs and others in Pannonia adopted Magyar language on the initiative of Roman church. Without that Magyar warriors which conquered Pannonia would be linguistically slavized with time same as Bulgars in eastern Balkans, because both Magyars and Bulgars eere small minority in the Slavic 'sea.'

People dont change language easily. We are talking about historical times when there was not schools or books.
For certain there was a lot of Slavic folk in the region that integrated into Hungarians this is evidenced by genetics and there is 21%
words of Slavic origin in Hungarian language. The genetic and linguistic and cultural influence of Slavs integrating within Hungaria is real.

[oszkar07]

Also their elites somehow had more Turkic originated names than Ugric ones like Balamber (Balamir), Octar (Ökter), Attila, Dengizic (Tengiz-ig), Ernak (comes from Er-), Charaton (Kara-tun), Uldiz (Ulduz), Mundzcuk (Muncuk), Eitil (İtil/İdil) etc.

Its possible the tribal confederation was bilingual , Ugric and Turkic speakers.

I believe the common Hungarians this may not have been all of the Political elite but the commoners whom maintained
and gave the language were predominantly Ugric speakers.
Furthermore i suspect such speakers already existed in Hungary in the time Arpad's people arrived.
Such folks were historical tribal kin and they recognised each other.
Bulgars were also connected with groups / of people that were Uralic/Ugric speakers.
Quite possible Ugric speakers already travelled with the Bulgars during the Bulgar migration into Europe in the 7th century.
There is a connection between these migratory events and the peoples in both.

[Varda]

Also their elites somehow had more Turkic originated names than Ugric ones like Balamber (Balamir), Octar (Ökter), Attila, Dengizic (Tengiz-ig), Ernak (comes from Er-), Charaton (Kara-tun), Uldiz (Ulduz), Mundzcuk (Muncuk), Eitil (İtil/İdil) etc.

Name Arpad could be related with Turkic arpa (barley)

[oszkar07]

I dont see any connection and just because St. Stephen adopted Christianity it does not mean the whole hungarian population became christians very quickly. Many of them practiced tengrism even in the 11-12. century, but of course just secretly. The complete christianization of hungarians happened in 300 years between 9-12 century.



These were not wars or classic military campaigns. Hungarian nomads just robbed easy targets like farms, churches etc in all parts of Europe, but they were not confronted with armies and they did not attack castles either. They defeated smaller regular forces with a special nomad tactics what europeans did not know but thats all. Obviously they had not much casualty during these campaigns, except the Battle of Lechfeld when 5000 nomad died. It was not the complete hungarian army anyway.



Medieval Hungary was much bigger than "Great Hungary" in the 19. century. The population number was similar to medieval France or England, of course it means a big army and military capacity.



According to Prof. Tibor Török the number of conquerors were not more than 30000-40000 nomad. The estimated population of Carpathian Basin was 0,5-1 million person at this time. If conquerors were more than 30-40k then the hungarian population would be far more asiatic today just like present chuvash or baskhir etc. So there are two theory:

1. Hungarian speakers lived in the Carpathian Basin in big number before Árpáds.
2. This small elite assimilated huge local population somehow.

Majority of profs accept the 1# theory today.



Yes, avars were not hungarians for sure, but i have not talked about this theory.

The point of the connection is that it is unlikely a small Political Military nomad elite will settle into a succesful nation state within 100 years that is granted
by the Pope to be accepted as a European Kingdom.

This integration and European connection Im suggesting was already likely to have commenced prior to Arpad's arrival.
Hungarian speakers probably already integrated with Slavs as also Avars did, this influenced integration into settled lifestyle rather than continued Nomad lifestyle.
This was a process that occured not only in 100 years as the mainstream theiry would suggest, but rather probably at least already
at least 100 years earlier.

1. Hungarian speakers lived in the Carpathian Basin in big number before Árpáds.

Hat persze, i have been saying that for many many years.

[oszkar07]

Slovenes refers to slavs in general, not the slovenian ethnicity. Anonymus called every local slav as slovene.

Pontosan !