Light eyes map of Europe (detail, scientifically backed)

[Damião de Góis]

Dear Brazilian friend, Livi found a maximum of 41.6% of blue and gray eyes in Veneto and a minimum of 13.9% in Sardinia, the average of blue and gray eyes that he found in her study for Italy is 30.5%. In his study, Sanchez found, close to Portugal, in Zamora, the minimum number of blue eyes in Spain, 10%, and in Cantabria, the maximum 29.5% of blue eyes. This community also has the maximum percentage of haplogroup R1a in Iberia, between 10 and 18 % in various genetic studies, this haplogroup is only in Cantabria in that percentage, and it surely entered with the Visigoths, in addition the mountains of Santander protected Cantabria from Muslim invasions, it was barely Romanized and there were never any Jews. All this explains why it is the only area of ​​Spain with a light pigmentation at the level of southern France or northern Italy. Tamagnini only found a maximum of 13% blue eyes in northern Portugal, and the country average is a meager 7%.
I know that Brazilians consider Neymar or Dani Alves light eyes that are clearly green with a mixture of brown, in Europe we do not consider these greenish tones as light eyes, but medium tones. I repeat that Portugal has 13% Haplogroup E, and Spain 6%, and the Iberian E is mostly North African, arrived less than 1300 years ago, nothing to do with the Neolithic E of the Balkans. Learn my lesson once and for all, as a high school teacher you and Cristianoviejo would be my worst students who would not pass the course...

1 - Very well, you have nothing else of the Sanchez Fernandez study other than the table. So i'll make my own assumptions just like Supercomputer did, i'll assume that blue means blue and blonde means blonde.

2 - According to the study you posted (Sanchez Fernandez) parts of Spain are 30% blue eyed and other parts of Spain are 30% blonde. The Canary Islands are 18% blonde also according to the data you posted.
I have found this for Italy:

Hair blondism highest frequencies : Veneto (12.6%), Piemonte (12.4%), Lombardia (10.7%), Liguria (10.5%)
Lowest blondism frequencies : Calabria (3.8%), Sardinia (1.7%)

Highest blue-eyes frequencies : Veneto (15.7%), Piedmonte (13.5%)
Lowest blue-eyes frequencies : Sardinia (4.02%), Calabria (5.47%),

Spain is considerably more blue eyed than Italy according to the data you yourself posted. It's also considerably blonder, in fact your data says that the Canary Islands is blonder than Italy.

3 - A few posts ago you didn't know what a haplogroup was and thought it was related to pigmentation. There are several E subclades in the iberian peninsula and i have already shown a distribution map for E-M81 which is supposed to be North African. It reaches a peak of 30-40% in Cantabria in Pasiegos. This can mean one of two things: moors did come to Cantabria or this haplogrop isn't related with Moors. I'll let your sudaca brain decide.

Yes it is semantics. How else do you explain all the data which fits? Are you saying 16% of Spaniards have pure blue eyes excluding grey? That would make Spaniards almost as light eyed as Hungarians. Spaniards are nowhere near Hungarians in pigmentation. 16% of Spaniards have blue and grey eyes, and around 26% have light and light mixed eyes. Now stop wasting my time.

My map is the best map that is possible to create from the data, you imbecile.

The data only fits if you change it. I'm not saying anything, i have been posting what it's written on the Hoyos Sainz study for the last pages but you prefer to ignore it and invent your own data. I'm gonna repeat myself for the n-th time and i hope for the last time.
Here are the numbers for blue eyes from the Hoyos Sainz study, it averages to 10%:



Then there's a second category, which is a very broad category of mixed eyes and it averages to 7%. He describes them in the first sentence as several colorations devired from blue and green mixed with brown, this could mean lots of things but it's definitely something mixed with brown.



You consider this broad mixed category to be grey. You say it's semantics even though it's clearly written on the study what he is measuring, and it's definitely not grey. And you do this so that the light eyes number match a more recent study (Sanchez Fernandez) which you also don't know the exact descriptions of what the colors mean and to match an internet study made by a forum user Toe Knee something. You even go as far as saying the Hoyos Sainz study and Sanchez Fernandez study are showing the exact same thing, even though you are inventing data that doesn't exist on one study and assuming categories on another study.

I don't know if this is clumsiness or dishonesty.

[sofiagris]

[QUOTE=Damião de Góis;7616857]1 - Very well, you have nothing else of the Sanchez Fernandez study other than the table. So i'll make my own assumptions just like Supercomputer did, i'll assume that blue means blue and blonde means blonde.

2 - According to the study you posted (Sanchez Fernandez) parts of Spain are 30% blue eyed and other parts of Spain are 30% blonde. The Canary Islands are 18% blonde also according to the data you posted.
I have found this for Italy:

Hair blondism highest frequencies : Veneto (12.6%), Piemonte (12.4%), Lombardia (10.7%), Liguria (10.5%)
Lowest blondism frequencies : Calabria (3.8%), Sardinia (1.7%)

Highest blue-eyes frequencies : Veneto (15.7%), Piedmonte (13.5%)
Lowest blue-eyes frequencies : Sardinia (4.02%), Calabria (5.47%),

Spain is considerably more blue eyed than Italy according to the data you yourself posted. It's also considerably blonder, in fact your data says that the Canary Islands is blonder than Italy.

3 - A few posts ago you didn't know what a haplogroup was and thought it was related to pigmentation. There are several E subclades in the iberian peninsula and i have already shown a distribution map for E-M81 which is supposed to be North African. It reaches a peak of 30-40% in Cantabria in Pasiegos. This can mean one of two things: moors did come to Cantabria or this haplogrop isn't related with Moors. I'll let your sudaca brain decide.



The data only fits if you change it. I'm not saying anything, i have been posting what it's written on the Hoyos Sainz study for the last pages but you prefer to ignore it and invent your own data. I'm gonna repeat myself for the n-th time and i hope for the last time.
Here are the numbers for blue eyes from the Hoyos Sainz study, it averages to 10%:



Then there's a second category, which is a very broad category of mixed eyes and it averages to 7%. He describes them in the first sentence as several colorations devired from blue and green mixed with brown, this could mean lots of things but it's definitely something mixed with brown.



You consider this broad mixed category to be grey. You say it's semantics even though it's clearly written on the study what he is measuring, and it's definitely not grey. And you do this so that the light eyes number match a more recent study (Sanchez Fernandez) which you also don't know the exact descriptions of what the colors mean and to match an internet study made by a forum user Toe Knee something. You even go as far as saying the Hoyos Sainz study and Sanchez Fernandez study are showing the exact same thing, even though you are inventing data that doesn't exist on one study and assuming categories on another study.

[sofiagris]

First tell you that Livi finds 41% of blue and gray eyes, a number similar to the 44% of Slovenia, since they are border. Sanchez Fernadez includes, along with blue eyes, blue ones mixed with green and gray tones.
The case of the Cantabrian Pasiegos is unique in Europe. There are 2000 Pasiegos isolated at least a thousand years ago in the most isolated mountains of Cantabria. Indeed, there is a 20% haplogroup E Berber in one study and 40% in another, and also 18 % of R1a of Slavic or Visigothic origin in one study and 25% in another, in addition to 7% of Neolithic G in one and 11% in the other. From the point of view of mitochondrial DNA, the 21% of V only found in greater quantity among the Sami, the 16% of U5 and 8% of T3 common in northern Europe, are striking... this can only be explained as an ancient population isolated that mixed with Moorish refugees from al andalus. The rest of the Cantabrians discriminated against these Pasiegos and never mixed with them because of their mixture with Moors. The same thing happened in the Pyrenees with the agotes, in asturias with the vaqueiros and in leon with the maragatos cursed and persecuted ethnic groups accused of having Moorish or Jewish blood in an environment in northern Spain free of Jewish and Moorish blood, these minorities suffered racism and They were not allowed to enter churches along with the other Cantabrians and northerners.
The Indo-European haplogroup R1b in Spain does not have the same amount of blue eyes as the varieties of Central europe and northwest Europe, in England and Germany R1b ​​has 65% blue eyes, in Central Europe 45% and in Iberia only 20%, 20% of the 66% of R1b in Spain is 13.2% blue-eyed, which added to I and R1a gives us 17.5% blue-eyed from the precise study by Sanchez Fernandez, Portugal has 13% less R1b and another 10 % more E Berber and J arab than Spain, which explains why the Portuguese population is less likely to have blue eyes, remaining at a meager 7%, little more than the 2% of Morocco

[Supercomputer]

First tell you that Livi finds 41% of blue and gray eyes, a number similar to the 44% of Slovenia, since they are border. Sanchez Fernadez includes, along with blue eyes, blue ones mixed with green and gray tones.
The case of the Cantabrian Pasiegos is unique in Europe. There are 2000 Pasiegos isolated at least a thousand years ago in the most isolated mountains of Cantabria. Indeed, there is a 20% haplorupo E Berber in one study and 40% in another, and also 18 % of R1a of Slavic or Visigothic origin in one study and 25% in another, in addition to 7% of Neolithic G in one and 11% in the other. From the point of view of mitochondrial DNA, the 21% of V only found in greater quantity among the Sami, the 16% of U5 and 8% of T3 common in northern Europe, are striking... this can only be explained as an ancient population isolated that mixed with Moorish refugees from al andalus. The rest of the Cantabrians discriminated against these Pasiegos and never mixed with them because of their mixture with Moors. The same thing happened in the Pyrenees with the agotes, in asturias with the vaqueiros and in leon with the maragatos cursed and persecuted ethnic groups accused of having Moorish or Jewish blood in an environment in northern Spain free of Jewish and Moorish blood, these minorities suffered racism and They were not allowed to enter churches along with the other Cantabrians and northerners.
The Indo-European haplogroup R1b in Spain does not have the same amount of blue eyes as the varieties of Central europe and northwest Europe, in England and Germany R1b ​​has 65% blue eyes, in Central Europe 45% and in Iberia only 20%, 20% of the 66% of R1b in Spain is 13.2% blue-eyed, which added to I and R1a gives us 17.5% blue-eyed from the precise study by Sanchez Fernandez, Portugal has 13% less R1b and another 10 % more E Berber and J arab than Spain, which explains why the Portuguese population is less likely to have blue eyes, remaining at a meager 7%, little more than the 2% of Morocco

Livi's "blue and grey" includes light mixed. Slovenia's 44% blue and grey includes only blue and grey without light mixed. If you add light mixed you get over 50% light eyes for Slovenia.

[sofiagris]

in fact the veneto region may be 8 percentage points below slovenia in percentage of , light eyes, slovenes are as lightly pigmented as austrians in some regions.
In no way, not even the most depigmented region of Spain, Cantabria, comes close to Veneto in percentage of light eyes and Portugal is even further away with 7% of blue eyes and perhaps another 7% of mixed blue eyes would be below 15%

[sofiagris]

green eyes with yellow spots like bluish eyes with yellow spots are classified as light eyes, however green eyes with brown spots are clearly intermediate eyes in coloration, blue eyes have sometimes brown orange spots but this bluish category with brown or orange spots is also classified as light eyes. This yellow or brown-orange specks are always around and near the pupil

[sofiagris]

I want to thank the excellent and documented work of Supercomputer, very well worked and documented with maps and data from anthropologists from the 19th, 20th and 21st centuries, congratulations. However, when comparing with my own data collected during my more than 40 years of teaching and collaboration with international universities such as Menendez Pelayo, with thousands of student files in which, among other data, hair and eye color appear, I can clarify some slight errors. For example, the maximum of light eyes; blue, gray and light green without counting hazel and green-brown, occurs in Finland and Estonia with a maximum of 85% among European countries followed by Sweden 84%, Norway and Iceland 83, Denmark 81%, Latvia 78% and Lithuania 77 %, Belarus 72% and Russia 66%. The percentage of light eyes in Ireland is 73%, far from Scandinavia and behind Nederland 76%, Scotland 69%, Welsh 61%, England is also oversized, the real figure being 66% and behind Germany 68%, which have a similar percentage to Poland. Another slight error is in the Balkans; Bulgaria has 35% light-eyed, the same percentage as Macedonia and Montenegro, and Albania, 31% its above Greece, 27%, which in turn surpasses Turkey with 22%. The percentage of light eyes in Serbia, Bosnia and Romania are identical at 42%. Regarding the Iberian Peninsula, Spain slightly surpasses Portugal with 29% compared to 27% with light eyes among Portuguese, France is correct 49%, Austria and the Czech Republic 62%, Switzerland and Slovenia the same percentage 58%, Slovakia and Ukraine 60%, Hungary has 56% light eyes , Moldavia 51%, Croatia 47% and Italy 37%.

[Septentrion]

I want to thank the excellent and documented work of Supercomputer, very well worked and documented with maps and data from anthropologists from the 19th, 20th and 21st centuries, congratulations. However, when comparing with my own data collected during my more than 40 years of teaching and collaboration with international universities such as Menendez Pelayo, with thousands of student files in which, among other data, hair and eye color appear, I can clarify some slight errors. For example, the maximum of light eyes; blue, gray and light green without counting hazel and green-brown, occurs in Finland and Estonia with a maximum of 85% among European countries followed by Sweden 84%, Norway and Iceland 83, Denmark 81%, Latvia 78% and Lithuania 77 %, Belarus 72% and Russia 66%. The percentage of light eyes in Ireland is 73%, far from Scandinavia and behind Nederland 76%, Scotland 69%, Welsh 61%, England is also oversized, the real figure being 66% and behind Germany 68%, which have a similar percentage to Poland. Another slight error is in the Balkans; Bulgaria has 35% light-eyed, the same percentage as Macedonia and Montenegro, and Albania, 31% its above Greece, 27%, which in turn surpasses Turkey with 22%. The percentage of light eyes in Serbia, Bosnia and Romania are identical at 42%. Regarding the Iberian Peninsula, Spain slightly surpasses Portugal with 29% compared to 27% with light eyes among Portuguese, France is correct 49%, Austria and the Czech Republic 62%, Switzerland and Slovenia the same percentage 58%, Slovakia and Ukraine 60%, Hungary has 56% light eyes , Moldavia 51% and Italy 37%.

Corrections! Sorry, Supercomputer is an amateur. The overall percentage for blue and green eyes in the United Kingdom is approximately 80% (50% blue and 30% green), this is comparable by all means to nations in Northern Europe. When Ireland and Scotland are separated, the ratio of light eyes is obviously over 80% and this respect it's equal to Scandinavian and Baltic nations not darker. Obviously England and Wales as a whole fall below 80%, but not lower than 75%. Parts of England which are comparable to Ireland and Scotland not that much different are Central, North East England and Yorkshires. Poland (72%), Germany (68%), the Czech Republic and Slovakia (65%), Slovenia (56%), Ukraine (53%), France (45%), Italy (30%), Spain (25%), Portugal (23%), Bulgaria (20%), Greece (15%).

According to this study, blue eyes:
Across present-day Europeans populations from the 1000 genomes project, the blue eye color
associated variant is found at an average frequency of 60%, and it reaches its highest frequency
in the Finnish population (90%) and the British population (81%)
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/bior...1/164400-2.pdf
Thus in my opinion, the difference between British Islanders and Scandinavians in terms of blue and light eye colours is negligible. However that of hair colour is.

[Melkiirs]

Corrections! Sorry, Supercomputer is an amateur. The overall percentage for blue and green eyes in the United Kingdom is approximately 80% (50% blue and 30% green), this is comparable by all means to nations in Northern Europe. When Ireland and Scotland are separated, the ratio of light eyes is obviously over 80% and this respect it's equal to Scandinavian and Baltic nations not darker. Obviously England and Wales as a whole fall below 80%, but not lower than 75%. Parts of England which are comparable to Ireland and Scotland not that much different are Central, North East England and Yorkshires. Poland (72%), Germany (68%), the Czech Republic and Slovakia (65%), Slovenia (56%), Ukraine (53%), France (45%), Italy (30%), Spain (25%), Portugal (23%), Bulgaria (20%), Greece (15%).

According to this study, blue eyes:
Across present-day Europeans populations from the 1000 genomes project, the blue eye color
associated variant is found at an average frequency of 60%, and it reaches its highest frequency
in the Finnish population (90%) and the British population (81%)
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/bior...1/164400-2.pdf
Thus in my opinion, the difference between British Islanders and Scandinavians in terms of blue and light eye colours is negligible. However that of hair colour is.

This is a prominent misconception. In terms of pure blue/grey eyes Martin #12-16 or Bunak #9-12 all the the nations of the British Isles are darker eyed than Nordic nations. The margin could be quite large, in fact. The British Isles appear distinctly darker in both hair and eyes than Scandinavians.

72.4% of Norwegians have pure blue/grey eyes Martin #9-12 based on the survey of 11,771 recruit age males under Halfdan Bryn. Other Nordics nations (including Finland and Estonia) are at least 60% pure light based on either the Martin or Bunak scale. In N. Fermanagh, E. Donegal, Tyrone, Londonderry which was the lightest eyed county subgroup in the Hooton and Dupertuis survey only 57.9% pure light was reached. 60% is about the upper limit for the British Isles yet still well below Norway.

Light eye variants on the OCA2-HERC2 region have a more Northeastern concentration. Back with gnomAD v.2.1.1 the Finnish aggregate along with the Swedish and Estonian clusters within the European non-Finnish aggregate quite consistently surpassed the mostly UK-derived Northwestern European cluster usually by around 10% with these variants. Even the Dutch in the Genome of the Netherlands may have a higher frequency (0.879) of the HERC2 variant at rs12913832 than the British population with the 1k Twin Cohort (0.7705). Northern Dutch and far Northwestern Germans who are still very Germanic may also be lighter eyed than the British overall.

This study (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3325407/) found blue eye haplotypes less frequent among the Irish than Danes, Finns, and NW Russians:

Spoiler!

[sofiagris]

The percentages for the British islands are misinterpreted, it is true that among the English there are 51% blue and grey eyes, 21% brown eyes and 28% greenish eyes, but a large part of these hazel eyes are brown-green and not green. clear, so we cannot count 79% of light eyes since only half of the greenish ones are mixed eyes, therefore the percentage of light eyes is 66%. In the case of Ireland, blue and grey eyes make up 59%, brown eyes make up 13% and greenish eyes make up 28%, around half are green-brown, so the real percentage of blue eyes plus light green is 73%, very far from the light-eyed 85% of scandinavia